A9 dualling

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A72
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by A72 »

Two short schemes in seven years. Why do we allow ourselves to be so slow and crap at building things in this country?!
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Burns
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by Burns »

We've designed and approved the go ahead for the Tomatin to Moy dualling. The only thing left to do is pick the contractor.

Sweet, that only takes a week or two, right?

Nah, the better part of a year and that's if we start the process today, which we won't.
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by Nwallace »

I thought the current procurement policy was to hand the contracts to your mates.

Worked great for Trojan in Dundee, until the rules caught up and various people connected lives in HMP Perth for a bit.
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by B9127 »

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/ne ... under-way/ Enabling Works underway for Tomatin to Moy Section
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by Osthagen »

A72 wrote: Fri Jan 28, 2022 00:33 Two short schemes in seven years. Why do we allow ourselves to be so slow and crap at building things in this country?!
A quick reference to the eco-fanatic ruling-classes on either side of the border should answer this.
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Mikehannah
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by Mikehannah »

Hi
It has got nothing to do with “ allowing ourselves to be slow” the A9 upgrade has always been a political exercise by the Nats in doing the minimum possible. For example why do we do one section at a time with a year long plus pause inbetween, when we could be doing two or even three sections at once. The current environmental tw@DLE is more about providing convenient cover.

Be thankful something is actually being done, the badly needed A96 upgrade has gone from residing in the very long grass to being kicked down a very deep hole.
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A72
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by A72 »

Mikehannah wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 20:38Be thankful something is actually being done, the badly needed A96 upgrade has gone from residing in the very long grass to being kicked down a very deep hole.
Quite. I reckon we'll lucky to anything happen with that, before the end of the decade. If only Patrick Harvie would fall down the same hole.
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by Chris Bertram »

A72 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 13:46
Mikehannah wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 20:38Be thankful something is actually being done, the badly needed A96 upgrade has gone from residing in the very long grass to being kicked down a very deep hole.
Quite. I reckon we'll lucky to anything happen with that, before the end of the decade. If only Patrick Harvie would fall down the same hole.
Any chance of the Scottish Greens getting a kicking at the next set of elections for propping up the SNP government and obstructing infrastructure plans at the same time?
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by jnty »

Chris Bertram wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 14:54
A72 wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 13:46
Mikehannah wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 20:38Be thankful something is actually being done, the badly needed A96 upgrade has gone from residing in the very long grass to being kicked down a very deep hole.
Quite. I reckon we'll lucky to anything happen with that, before the end of the decade. If only Patrick Harvie would fall down the same hole.
Any chance of the Scottish Greens getting a kicking at the next set of elections for propping up the SNP government and obstructing infrastructure plans at the same time?
The most recent opinion polls showed the Scottish Greens at a record high.

In reality I doubt they're having much impact on Scottish roads policy. The A9/A96 dualling commitment was made during the SNP's first term where they formed a minority government. They had won the last election by the skin of their teeth and desperately needed to broaden the geographic extent of their appeal with bold populist policies - the Queensferry Crossing and bridge tolls abolition was part of this as well. Of course, this worked probably better than they expected and won them an unprecedented majority in the subsequent election. Now, 15 years deep into the grim realities of government, they've long since realised that there's lots and lots of other quite important things they need to spend money on and have therefore been limiting capital spend on the A9 for ages. It's nothing to do with environmentalism: rail and active travel have been the victims of "aspiration fatigue" over the years as well.
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by clc »

As part of the deal with the Green Party the active travel budget is set to increase from £100 million to £300 million per annum. Patrick Harvie was saying the other day that Scotland will soon be spending more per head on active travel than the Netherlands.

Decarbonising the railways is a top priority for the Scottish Government. There’s £200 million per annum set aside for that.

£500 million has been committed to bus priority infrastructure over the next 5 years.

The A83 Access to Argyll and Bute project is a top priority and will probably cost over £100 million.

All these demands on the transport capital budget don’t leave much money for the A9.
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by jnty »

clc wrote: Mon Mar 28, 2022 21:40 As part of the deal with the Green Party the active travel budget is set to increase from £100 million to £300 million per annum. Patrick Harvie was saying the other day that Scotland will soon be spending more per head on active travel than the Netherlands.

Decarbonising the railways is a top priority for the Scottish Government. There’s £200 million per annum set aside for that.

£500 million has been committed to bus priority infrastructure over the next 5 years.

The A83 Access to Argyll and Bute project is a top priority and will probably cost over £100 million.

All these demands on the transport capital budget don’t leave much money for the A9.
Yes - and as you note, only the active travel spend is a direct result of the deal with the Greens and something the SNP are likely to have partly done anyway.
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by B9127 »

And after the Greens give some money to Russia to help them destroy chemical weapons there won't be a lot left for anything . Its in the Green Manifesto!
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by Mikehannah »

If the Russian can invade a sovereign neighbour, they can destroy their own chemical weapons, preferably not over Ukraine soil.
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by Chris5156 »

Mikehannah wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 20:38It has got nothing to do with “ allowing ourselves to be slow” the A9 upgrade has always been a political exercise by the Nats in doing the minimum possible. For example why do we do one section at a time with a year long plus pause inbetween, when we could be doing two or even three sections at once. The current environmental tw@DLE is more about providing convenient cover.
Seems odd to complain that the SNP are not doing enough for the A9 upgrades, when it's their pet project and they're the only political party interested in doing it. Without them it wouldn't be happening at all.
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by jnty »

B9127 wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 19:55 And after the Greens give some money to Russia to help them destroy chemical weapons there won't be a lot left for anything . Its in the Green Manifesto!
Are you sure it's in the Scottish Green Party manifesto? In any case I don't think it forms part of the not-coalition agreement...
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by B9127 »

jnty wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 23:03
B9127 wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 19:55 And after the Greens give some money to Russia to help them destroy chemical weapons there won't be a lot left for anything . Its in the Green Manifesto!
Are you sure it's in the Scottish Green Party manifesto? In any case I don't think it forms part of the not-coalition agreement...


PD412 We will provide financial support for the urgent decommissioning of chemical weapons in the former Soviet Union.
Motorways travelled 2019 - M90 - M9 - M80 - M8 -M77 - M73 -A74(M) -M6-M42-M40 -A404(M) - M4 - M5 -M50 -M56 much better so far than last year
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by jnty »

B9127 wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 10:04
jnty wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 23:03
B9127 wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 19:55 And after the Greens give some money to Russia to help them destroy chemical weapons there won't be a lot left for anything . Its in the Green Manifesto!
Are you sure it's in the Scottish Green Party manifesto? In any case I don't think it forms part of the not-coalition agreement...


PD412 We will provide financial support for the urgent decommissioning of chemical weapons in the former Soviet Union.
That seems to be a quote from policy documents (not manifesto) of the Green Party of England and Wales (not Scotland) and seems to refer to decommissioning across former Soviet states (not just Russia). It also aligns with longstanding UK government policy.

There are plenty of arguments to be had about Scottish transport policy but they are not helped by citing incorrect, unrelated and apparently uncontroversial facts about the wrong party.
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by lexynoise »

I don’t want to delve into politics too much (it never ends well), but there are some recent posts from people who don’t understand the differences between English politics and Scottish politics, so I’ve tried to write some fair and balanced notes.

The Scottish Green Party is nothing to do with the English and Welsh Green Party. They’re completely separate - one doesn’t answer to the other - and they actually don’t get on very well. The Scottish Greens don’t have anything about paying other countries to dispose of weapons in their manifesto.

This is in contrast to the “Scottish” Labour, Lib Dem and Conservatives, which aren’t actual parties at all and are just the UK parties operating under a different brand name. So the Scottish party can’t go against the UK party because they call the shots.

It’s also worth noting that the Scottish Parliament uses proportional representation rather than First Past The Post. This reduces the seats the winning party gets and gives more seats to the parties in second and third place. Minority governments and coalitions are the norm - there’s only ever been one Parliament that was a majority and it was incredibly narrow. A hung Parliament in Scotland doesn’t mean the same as in Westminster. It doesn’t mean a party is losing support or is on thin ice. Despite the fact the SNP have a minority right now, they have a lot of support. You can see this from the constituency results, which they win by a landslide. The Labour, Conservative and Lib Dem seats come from the regional bank, which are given to parties in second and third place.

Hope that’s fair and balanced, and also helpful.
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by Bryn666 »

The biggest problem with any A9 megaplan still remains there is simply not the traffic to make it stack up.

The safety argument falls flat too when the average speed checks and raising of the HGV limit to 50 have done wonders to reduce the number of kamikaze car drivers along the single bits too.

For comparison, similar corridors in France that are carrying similar traffic volumes are tolled autoroutes and built to lower standards than busier routes - the A28 for example opened with narrow lanes and D1 sections over structures.

I would rather a targeted programme of dualling the worst bits and improve enforcement on better bits where dualling isn't necessary. The real danger sites are the flat junctions and these need resolving be they single carriageway GSJs like at Newtonmore or just actual roundabouts.
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Re: A9 dualling

Post by owen b »

Bryn666 wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 15:34 The biggest problem with any A9 megaplan still remains there is simply not the traffic to make it stack up.

The safety argument falls flat too when the average speed checks and raising of the HGV limit to 50 have done wonders to reduce the number of kamikaze car drivers along the single bits too.

I would rather a targeted programme of dualling the worst bits and improve enforcement on better bits where dualling isn't necessary. The real danger sites are the flat junctions and these need resolving be they single carriageway GSJs like at Newtonmore or just actual roundabouts.
As someone who uses the A9 quite frequently at holiday times I fully agree. Perth to Inverness is a much calmer experience now with the cameras and raised HGV speed limit, and delays are minor. Even in an ideal world of lots of available public money, an unpolluting vehicle fleet and minimal environmental impacts of road building, I think completing the dualling of Perth to Pitlochry, adding GSJs to replace the worst of the flat junctions, and building some sections of alternating S2+1 in the middle of the longer sections between dualled stretches should be sufficient.
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