A9 dualling

[rileyrob]

According to Traffic Scotland on Twitter the road was closed just before 7, and reopened after investigation work at about 3am. Sadly this, to me, suggests an incident severe enough that could result in a fatality. The incident itself was at Alvie which is the northern end of the new dualled section, and the fact that the road was closed both ways would indicate it was probably on the S2 section.

[GrahameCase]

According to Traffic Scotland on Twitter the road was closed just before 7, and reopened after investigation work at about 3am. Sadly this, to me, suggests an incident severe enough that could result in a fatality. The incident itself was at Alvie which is the northern end of the new dualled section, and the fact that the road was closed both ways would indicate it was probably on the S2 section.

Certainly from what i know of incidents i’ve been involved in or delayed by on the A9 a lot of the accidents have occured on s2 sections just after the dual carriageway ends.

Thankfully in 7 years time this will hopefully be a thing of the past.

EDIT ; As feared, another fatality,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-h ... s-41746040

[A9Craig]

Was along that way again today. Last night's collision happened on S2 about 400m north of the end of the D2. Looks like northbound car was in right-hand lane so driver confusion will certainly be an avenue of investigation.

I think that double white-lining the first 1km or so of all S2 sections after a D2 section on the A9 should be considered. This has been done at the southern end of the new D2.

[GrahameCase]

I think that double white-lining the first 1km or so of all S2 sections after a D2 section on the A9 should be considered. This has been done at the southern end of the new D2.

A great suggestion and easy to implement - I just fear that people won’t pay attention to it or those unfamiliar with the road will still think it’s a lane marker.

[Duncan macknight]

I'm not entirely sure why these accidents are happening and also why they are at the newest section. If people i.e. Tourists have driven the A9 from Perth then the switching from Dual to Single carriageway is nothing new as it happens a number of times. The signage is very clear as the "end of dual carriageway" signs are one of the biggest on the whole route (the biggest is at Tomatin) and there is a fair amount of hatching when the road narrrows. Foreigners who come from other parts of Europe must have roads which alternate between dual and single so they must be familiar with this albeit unusual layout.

[Ruperts Trooper]

I'm not entirely sure why these accidents are happening and also why they are at the newest section. If people i.e. Tourists have driven the A9 from Perth then the switching from Dual to Single carriageway is nothing new as it happens a number of times. The signage is very clear as the "end of dual carriageway" signs are one of the biggest on the whole route (the biggest is at Tomatin) and there is a fair amount of hatching when the road narrrows. Foreigners who come from other parts of Europe must have roads which alternate between dual and single so they must be familiar with this albeit unusual layout.

There's always been a minority of drivers who chance their arm and carry on a bit further where 2 lanes come down to one, to overtake a few more vehicles.

I'll admit when I travelled the A9 in late June this year, that I found myself overtaking against on-coming traffic in a contra-flow section with "no overtaking signs" - poor observation on my part particularly in view of the high standard I set myself - I guess monotony comes into it.

[GrahameCase]

I’ve found myself running across the hashes in the Drummochter dualled section Northbound as I simply misjudged where the end of the dual section was.
The signage notifying me to pull over was obscured by other vehicles - thankfully I was able to get over off the hatched section sharpish.

It’s pretty obvious you are running over the hatches though.

[A9Craig]

As Grahame says this would be easy to implement and also wouldn't cost very much. The end of dual carriageway signs are very visible in daylight but they aren't lit up in darkness so less easy to see.

Going by the news this was a woman in her late 50s driving a low powered car in the dark so I think it's pretty unlikely that this was the result of an attempted overtake on a S2 just after a D2 finished.

The interfaces between D2 and S2 are going to increase over the next few years until the D2 sections start to join up. Every option to mitigate the risk of driver confusion ought to be implemented in that period. Signs that illuminate as you approach the end of a D2 might be another idea.

[Nwallace]

I’ve found myself running across the hashes in the Drummochter dualled section Northbound as I simply misjudged where the end of the dual section was.
The signage notifying me to pull over was obscured by other vehicles - thankfully I was able to get over off the hatched section sharpish.

It’s pretty obvious you are running over the hatches though.

It's also not impossible to get stuck out in the RHL at the end of Dual Carriageway;
A wee bit disturbing when you're driving an 8m motorhome that can only really do 50 under its own power and get the amount of time it will take to get past that long line of cars doing 40 on the descent to the pass of Birnham wrong...

It's also not uncommon to be overtaken by someone when the hatching is clear.

[A9NWIL]

As Grahame says this would be easy to implement and also wouldn't cost very much. The end of dual carriageway signs are very visible in daylight but they aren't lit up in darkness so less easy to see.

Going by the news this was a woman in her late 50s driving a low powered car in the dark so I think it's pretty unlikely that this was the result of an attempted overtake on a S2 just after a D2 finished.

The interfaces between D2 and S2 are going to increase over the next few years until the D2 sections start to join up. Every option to mitigate the risk of driver confusion ought to be implemented in that period. Signs that illuminate as you approach the end of a D2 might be another idea.

As in something that lights up when you are driving over a certain point like the light up 30mph signs? perhaps sensors in the road in lane 2 or at least something in the central reservation that picks up for vehicles in lane 2 only.

[Berk]

It's also not impossible to get stuck out in the RHL at the end of Dual Carriageway;
A wee bit disturbing when you're driving an 8m motorhome that can only really do 50 under its own power and get the amount of time it will take to get past that long line of cars doing 40 on the descent to the pass of Birnham wrong...

It's also not uncommon to be overtaken by someone when the hatching is clear.

Is that a section with cameras installed, or just a herd mentality thing?? I don’t know why people view descents as being extremely dangerous. Some people practically burn their foot brakes on the way down. I’ve got no time for careless behaviour like that.

[Ruperts Trooper]

I’ve found myself running across the hashes in the Drummochter dualled section Northbound as I simply misjudged where the end of the dual section was.
The signage notifying me to pull over was obscured by other vehicles - thankfully I was able to get over off the hatched section sharpish.

It’s pretty obvious you are running over the hatches though.

It's also not impossible to get stuck out in the RHL at the end of Dual Carriageway;
A wee bit disturbing when you're driving an 8m motorhome that can only really do 50 under its own power and get the amount of time it will take to get past that long line of cars doing 40 on the descent to the pass of Birnham wrong...

It's also not uncommon to be overtaken by someone when the hatching is clear.

That's bad overtaking in the first place.

[Berk]

True - but if they're pootling along, maybe 40, or 50, the implication is you have to slow down and ‘follow them’. Not a lot of choice there, really.

[Ruperts Trooper]

True - but if they're pootling along, maybe 40, or 50, the implication is you have to slow down and ‘follow them’. Not a lot of choice there, really.

Thinking about overtaking, even moving out to look, is fine - but overtaking with nowhere to go isn't.

[Nwallace]

It's also not impossible to get stuck out in the RHL at the end of Dual Carriageway;
A wee bit disturbing when you're driving an 8m motorhome that can only really do 50 under its own power and get the amount of time it will take to get past that long line of cars doing 40 on the descent to the pass of Birnham wrong...

It's also not uncommon to be overtaken by someone when the hatching is clear.

Is that a section with cameras installed, or just a herd mentality thing?? I don’t know why people view descents as being extremely dangerous. Some people practically burn their foot brakes on the way down. I’ve got no time for careless behaviour like that.

The Average speed cameras do not cover the dual carriage way sections north of Perth.
Almost certainly Herd mentality or just the 40mph club out for a Friday evening run to Dunkeld?

It's a 2.5Km DC on what is quite a steep hill (Maximum seems to be 3.5%) that curves to the left so you can only see maybe 250m (bit more in the MH due to the height) of what you're trying to pass and it suddenly flattens out at the bottom before rising slightly (1.5%) which is the main problem in the motorhome, you're doing 70 easily (well except for the surprisingly light steering which makes doing 70 "Interesting" and some people put power steering on them...) and then you start to lose the momentum at the bottom of the hill and before you know it you're at the end of the dualler and rapidly running out of space as everyone in the left hand lane is holding speed better than you.
It's also where I've had the most people blast past in the hatching when I've cleanly cleared everything descending at 40 at erm "70" in the car.

I've also had the opposite going the other way; battering along at 50, catch a car that's doing 40 and can't get past because there isn't the grunt to get up that hill and hold speed, which results in hammering it in 3rd at 35 because you've had to back off on the approach because you know you're not getting past... then again everyone else that wants past you gets slightly worried by the amount of flames spitting out the side exhaust because the carbs a bit worn...

I think along with the Drummochter-Dalnspittal section of Dual Carriageway the Luncarty - Pass of Birnham are the most frantic sections for people trying to pass.

[Berk]

And the last one you mentioned will almost certainly be the last to be improved - not even made it to ‘Stage 3’ yet...

[A9NWIL]

It's also not impossible to get stuck out in the RHL at the end of Dual Carriageway;
A wee bit disturbing when you're driving an 8m motorhome that can only really do 50 under its own power and get the amount of time it will take to get past that long line of cars doing 40 on the descent to the pass of Birnham wrong...

It's also not uncommon to be overtaken by someone when the hatching is clear.

Is that a section with cameras installed, or just a herd mentality thing?? I don’t know why people view descents as being extremely dangerous. Some people practically burn their foot brakes on the way down. I’ve got no time for careless behaviour like that.

The Average speed cameras do not cover the dual carriage way sections north of Perth.
Almost certainly Herd mentality or just the 40mph club out for a Friday evening run to Dunkeld?

It's a 2.5Km DC on what is quite a steep hill (Maximum seems to be 3.5%) that curves to the left so you can only see maybe 250m (bit more in the MH due to the height) of what you're trying to pass and it suddenly flattens out at the bottom before rising slightly (1.5%) which is the main problem in the motorhome, you're doing 70 easily (well except for the surprisingly light steering which makes doing 70 "Interesting" and some people put power steering on them...) and then you start to lose the momentum at the bottom of the hill and before you know it you're at the end of the dualler and rapidly running out of space as everyone in the left hand lane is holding speed better than you.
It's also where I've had the most people blast past in the hatching when I've cleanly cleared everything descending at 40 at erm "70" in the car.

I've also had the opposite going the other way; battering along at 50, catch a car that's doing 40 and can't get past because there isn't the grunt to get up that hill and hold speed, which results in hammering it in 3rd at 35 because you've had to back off on the approach because you know you're not getting past... then again everyone else that wants past you gets slightly worried by the amount of flames spitting out the side exhaust because the carbs a bit worn...

I think along with the Drummochter-Dalnspittal section of Dual Carriageway the Luncarty - Pass of Birnham are the most frantic sections for people trying to pass.

I really do find it a pain when people go so far under the speed limit for no reason, you can understand 5mph under but 10mph+ thats not good! If people want to go 40mph then they should use a slower road that you cant get up to a faster speed than 40mph, there has to be some around.

[Berk]

You’ll also find that bimblers don’t always fit the same mould. They’re not always seniors, far from it. It’s often city-dwellers that are worst...

[Duncan macknight]

The Pass of Birnam D2 has always been a bit short for today's traffic. When it was opened in the late 70s I imagine it was praised as bypassing the "Danger" bridge on the old road. However today that's one of the busier sections of the road so in tourist traffic, or driving behind a convey of lorries and slow drivers it can be futile in overtaking sometimes. Thankfully the next dual carriageway to be built is between Luncarty and Birnam so it shouldn't be a problem for much longer. In construction I imagine the speed limit will be reduced, southbound, as getting people to slow down from 70-80mph to the 40mph limit I imagine a bit dogey. We shall wait and see...

[Burns]

The problem with driving the A9 (and the UK in general) is speed differentials. On my most recent trip to Norway, I was on a lot of trucking routes and other than on steep hills, the trucks maintained the same 80kmh as everyone else (often a little faster, also like everyone else since the speed limits over there are somewhat low). On my way back to the airport, I saw the horrible sight of a large truck with flashing orange lights being led along the road by a van, also with flashing lights. Over here, said truck would be doing something like 30mph with miles of traffic behind it. Guess how much the wide load was doing in Norway? That's right, 80kmh (and sometimes a wee bit more), the same as everyone else.

You can see the point I'm making. If everyone drove at the same speed, things would flow a lot better, driver frustration would be a lot lower and life would be that little bit nicer. Instead, we live in a stupid country where people drive vindictively slower than the limit for no reason*.

*I'm sure people drive slower than the limit in Norway for no reason as well, it's just that in the three weeks (across a few trips) I've had of driving around there, I can think of only one driver who did so whereas here, I'll meet and surpass that number in the first mile of my drive.