A1 Northumberland Dualling

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Glenn A
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Glenn A »

I know there are alternatives from Newcastle to Edinburgh, but the A1 is the only logical route from Newcastle to Berwick and is very popular with tourists in summer. I think at the very least dualling between the Morpeth and Alnwick by passes is imperative as the road is busy. and prone to massive tailbacks in summer. Then the rest of the road in England, including the Berwick by pass, should be dualled.
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KeithW
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

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Glenn A
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Glenn A »

So let's hope this does get done as the A1 is poor north of Morpeth and a mixture of S2 and D2 is unacceptable for such a busy road, rather like the A66, whose upgrade is due to start this year. Obviously these S2 sections of the A1 are a reminder of what the road was like in the rest of the country 60 years ago, but this nostalgia means nothing when you can't get past a tractor doing 10 mph.
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owen b
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by owen b »

Glenn A wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 18:35
So let's hope this does get done as the A1 is poor north of Morpeth and a mixture of S2 and D2 is unacceptable for such a busy road, rather like the A66, whose upgrade is due to start this year.
According to the highwaysengland website, A66 construction starts in 2024/5 : https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... s-pennine/
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KeithW
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by KeithW »

owen b wrote: Sun Jan 09, 2022 18:44 According to the highwaysengland website, A66 construction starts in 2024/5 : https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... s-pennine/
The latest reports I saw stated that archaeological and environmental surveys were starting ahead of road construction.
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Hudson80
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Hudson80 »

As others have suggested the upgrade of the A1 in Scotland has always been a political pawn peddled by conservative MPs in the area.

The fact of the matter is that there’s nowhere near the demand to warrant the enormous expenditure. I’ve worked on this road in recent years and beyond the improved expressway to the north, you have sections in the south that are uncharacteristically quiet for a trunk road. Areas where you could virtually lie untroubled in the middle of the carriageway for a couple of minutes without seeing a single vehicle. It’s not the case either that neighbouring routes are currently experiencing congestion or poor journey times. The A68 functions well and I believe is an equally scenic route that many people prefer to take as it’s more direct and crucially it cuts out junctions on the A720 that you’d face if heading north (or to Edinburgh) via the A1.

There are other areas of the trunk road network in the south east that would benefit massively from improvements. The forth bridges are poorly connected to the likes of the A720, a route itself which has horrendous journey times because it’s in dire need of reconfiguration at several junctions. You also have legitimate calls for bypasses of towns like Selkirk which accommodates the A7. It’s town centre is sorely incapable of handling the constant flow of HGVs that opt for that route when entering Scotland.

Talk of improving the A1 is frustrating because it’s just about politics. It’s arguably already over-engineered and there are so many others parts of the network that of far greater priority to improve.
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Mark Hewitt
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Mark Hewitt »

Hudson80 wrote:As others have suggested the upgrade of the A1 in Scotland has always been a political pawn peddled by conservative MPs in the area.

The fact of the matter is that there’s nowhere near the demand to warrant the enormous expenditure. I’ve worked on this road in recent years and beyond the improved expressway to the north, you have sections in the south that are uncharacteristically quiet for a trunk road. Areas where you could virtually lie untroubled in the middle of the carriageway for a couple of minutes without seeing a single vehicle. It’s not the case either that neighbouring routes are currently experiencing congestion or poor journey times. The A68 functions well and I believe is an equally scenic route that many people prefer to take as it’s more direct and crucially it cuts out junctions on the A720 that you’d face if heading north (or to Edinburgh) via the A1.

There are other areas of the trunk road network in the south east that would benefit massively from improvements. The forth bridges are poorly connected to the likes of the A720, a route itself which has horrendous journey times because it’s in dire need of reconfiguration at several junctions. You also have legitimate calls for bypasses of towns like Selkirk which accommodates the A7. It’s town centre is sorely incapable of handling the constant flow of HGVs that opt for that route when entering Scotland.

Talk of improving the A1 is frustrating because it’s just about politics. It’s arguably already over-engineered and there are so many others parts of the network that of far greater priority to improve.
While I would agree with that sentiment I think it only really applies North of Alnwick. Morpeth to Felton is the only bit that really needs to be addressed and it is in progress.
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KeithW
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by KeithW »

Mark Hewitt wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 08:17
While I would agree with that sentiment I think it only really applies North of Alnwick. Morpeth to Felton is the only bit that really needs to be addressed and it is in progress.
There are sections north of Alnwick where full dualling is hard to justify on traffic levels but the flat junctions are decidedly iffy. Warenford, Belford, Haggerston Castle and Beal come to mind. When there is an incident along there or even routine road works the lack of viable alternative routes can cause chaos. A break down or even a flat tyre on an HGV can cause huge tailbacks that make recovery a real problem if the recovery service is in Morpeth, Alnwick or Berwick.
jabbaboy
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by jabbaboy »

Hudson80 wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 08:09 As others have suggested the upgrade of the A1 in Scotland has always been a political pawn peddled by conservative MPs in the area.

The fact of the matter is that there’s nowhere near the demand to warrant the enormous expenditure. I’ve worked on this road in recent years and beyond the improved expressway to the north, you have sections in the south that are uncharacteristically quiet for a trunk road. Areas where you could virtually lie untroubled in the middle of the carriageway for a couple of minutes without seeing a single vehicle. It’s not the case either that neighbouring routes are currently experiencing congestion or poor journey times. The A68 functions well and I believe is an equally scenic route that many people prefer to take as it’s more direct and crucially it cuts out junctions on the A720 that you’d face if heading north (or to Edinburgh) via the A1.

There are other areas of the trunk road network in the south east that would benefit massively from improvements. The forth bridges are poorly connected to the likes of the A720, a route itself which has horrendous journey times because it’s in dire need of reconfiguration at several junctions. You also have legitimate calls for bypasses of towns like Selkirk which accommodates the A7. It’s town centre is sorely incapable of handling the constant flow of HGVs that opt for that route when entering Scotland.

Talk of improving the A1 is frustrating because it’s just about politics. It’s arguably already over-engineered and there are so many others parts of the network that of far greater priority to improve.
Totally agreed with your comments on the Scottish side of the border, it's always constantly quiet. As someone said the only bits that really need done are upto Alnwick and ideally more passing places between Brownieside and Berwick. It's a long stretch (22 mile I believe) without any overtaking opportunities especially in
Summer with people travelling to North Northumberland.

Being from the North East, I'd much rather see the A69 upgraded over the A1 in Scotland, it's more useful and is just dangerous in parts Low Row, the lack of a bypass of Warwick Bridge and the bendy section around Denton Mill with junctions on corners in particular.
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jackal
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by jackal »

The current dualling scheme (Morpeth to Ellingham) has two 'parts', as NH call them:

Part A: Morpeth to Felton - 18k AADT
Part B: Alnwick to Ellingham - 12k AADT

Part A is absolutely reasonable, part B is a bit more dubious, but still not bad value considering that, at £20m per mile, the overall scheme is far cheaper than comparable ones: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43131&p=1217320

I think I prefer part B dualling to A69 dualling. The A69 has similar volumes on the SC sections, but is likely to cost far more per mile. The A66, which is somewhat comparable, is projected around £43m per mile. Admittedly I haven't dug into the safety data, though I don't think it's great on either the A1 or A69.

So I can't really fault the prioritisation in terms of progressing one dualling scheme rather than another. But one could argue that the Part B money could have been better spent at Seaton Burn and Moor Farm.
Paul7755
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Paul7755 »

As I suggested a while back, “Alnwick to Ellingham” really is an exaggerated name for the northern part.

I think it should have been consulted and announced as Denwick to Brownieside, (or even just to North Charlton), with the main emphasis being on the important safety benefits of removing the flat crossing at Charlton Mires.

Reduced to bare bones the scheme is only a single junction grade separation with connections to D2 roads either side, 5 miles total.
NICK 647063
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by NICK 647063 »

jackal wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:13 The current dualling scheme (Morpeth to Ellingham) has two 'parts', as NH call them:

Part A: Morpeth to Felton - 18k AADT
Part B: Alnwick to Ellingham - 12k AADT

Part A is absolutely reasonable, part B is a bit more dubious, but still not bad value considering that, at £20m per mile, the overall scheme is far cheaper than comparable ones: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43131&p=1217320

I think I prefer part B dualling to A69 dualling. The A69 has similar volumes on the SC sections, but is likely to cost far more per mile. The A66, which is somewhat comparable, is projected around £43m per mile. Admittedly I haven't dug into the safety data, though I don't think it's great on either the A1 or A69.

So I can't really fault the prioritisation in terms of progressing one dualling scheme rather than another. But one could argue that the Part B money could have been better spent at Seaton Burn and Moor Farm.
Part B is crazy with those low traffic volumes! If I’m travelling from Leeds to Edinburgh I would always take the A68 route, the A1 is miles longer and not logical at all, if I’m heading any further North to say Aberdeen it’s actually easier to take the A1(M)/A66 route then up via Glasgow, with an improved A66 coming soon that will likely take more people that way meaning less on the A1!

How can we justify wasting this money on the A1 when we have roads like the A64 that’s not only suffering daily congestion York to Malton but has also had some terrible fatalities, the numbers are appalling! Absolute joke wasting money on the A1!
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wrinkly
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

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NICK 647063 wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 21:30
Part B is crazy with those low traffic volumes! If I’m travelling from Leeds to Edinburgh I would always take the A68 route, the A1 is miles longer and not logical at all, if I’m heading any further North to say Aberdeen it’s actually easier to take the A1(M)/A66 route then up via Glasgow, with an improved A66 coming soon that will likely take more people that way meaning less on the A1!

How can we justify wasting this money on the A1 when we have roads like the A64 that’s not only suffering daily congestion York to Malton but has also had some terrible fatalities, the numbers are appalling! Absolute joke wasting money on the A1!
Part B is less than 5 miles of new dualling, and fills a gap between two existing stretches. So not very big compared with the A9, say! (Which has similar traffic volumes.) But I agree with you about the A64.
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by doebag »

NICK 647063 wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 21:30
How can we justify wasting this money on the A1 when we have roads like the A64 that’s not only suffering daily congestion York to Malton but has also had some terrible fatalities, the numbers are appalling! Absolute joke wasting money on the A1!
Resilience on the network, there are plenty of examples where the temporary closure of a major route means chaos on any alternative.
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jackal
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by jackal »

wrinkly wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 21:52
NICK 647063 wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 21:30
Part B is crazy with those low traffic volumes! If I’m travelling from Leeds to Edinburgh I would always take the A68 route, the A1 is miles longer and not logical at all, if I’m heading any further North to say Aberdeen it’s actually easier to take the A1(M)/A66 route then up via Glasgow, with an improved A66 coming soon that will likely take more people that way meaning less on the A1!

How can we justify wasting this money on the A1 when we have roads like the A64 that’s not only suffering daily congestion York to Malton but has also had some terrible fatalities, the numbers are appalling! Absolute joke wasting money on the A1!
Part B is less than 5 miles of new dualling, and fills a gap between two existing stretches. So not very big compared with the A9, say! (Which has similar traffic volumes.) But I agree with you about the A64.
Indeed, given the overall scheme is very cheap, and part B only has 1 of the 4 GSJs, it must be extremely cheap (£15m per mile?) for a grade-separated GSJ, and does deliver significant safety benefits by removing dangerous at-grade junctions and single to dual transitions.

I agree it might have been better to put the money towards the A64, but it's still a very worthwhile improvement, and won't be outdated in a few years like stacking space and hamburger schemes, which it is actually more comparable to in terms of cost.
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brombeer
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by brombeer »

jackal wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:54 Indeed, given the overall scheme is very cheap, and part B only has 1 of the 4 GSJs, it must be extremely cheap (£15m per mile?) for a grade-separated GSJ, and does deliver significant safety benefits by removing dangerous at-grade junctions and single to dual transitions.
Replacing that short succession of intersections at Charlton with one GSJ would probably be helpful locally too, and improve safety. Feels like low-hanging fruit.

Happy to take the broader point that this section shouldn’t be prioritised. That’s politics, a rational sequencing is just not something that one can expect. Has been like that for ages, and is not specifically English/British too.
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Paul7755 »

brombeer wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 18:37
jackal wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 12:54 Indeed, given the overall scheme is very cheap, and part B only has 1 of the 4 GSJs, it must be extremely cheap (£15m per mile?) for a grade-separated GSJ, and does deliver significant safety benefits by removing dangerous at-grade junctions and single to dual transitions.
Replacing that short succession of intersections at Charlton with one GSJ would probably be helpful locally too, and improve safety. Feels like low-hanging fruit.

Happy to take the broader point that this section shouldn’t be prioritised. That’s politics, a rational sequencing is just not something that one can expect. Has been like that for ages, and is not specifically English/British too.
I’m pretty sure the road safety aspects of what is effectively a staggered crossroads at Charlton Mires is a major point. I expect during the peak summer holiday period the risks are completely different to what might be suggested by the AADT figures?
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A303Chris
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by A303Chris »

The decision to widening the A1 between Morpeth and Ellingham has now been put back to December 2022 by the SoS.

Call me cynic but there are rumours of an election next year, lets delay a good news story to as close as possible to an election.
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KeithW
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by KeithW »

jackal wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 12:13
I think I prefer part B dualling to A69 dualling. The A69 has similar volumes on the SC sections, but is likely to cost far more per mile. The A66, which is somewhat comparable, is projected around £43m per mile. Admittedly I haven't dug into the safety data, though I don't think it's great on either the A1 or A69.

So I can't really fault the prioritisation in terms of progressing one dualling scheme rather than another. But one could argue that the Part B money could have been better spent at Seaton Burn and Moor Farm.
The A66 has higher traffic flow than the A1 north of Alnwick and carries a lot of HGV's. It also has some very poor junctions that produce more than its share of serious accidents. Trying to get across the A66 here is positively hair raising.
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Re: A1 Northumberland Dualling

Post by Conekicker »

Hudson80 wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 08:09 As others have suggested the upgrade of the A1 in Scotland has always been a political pawn peddled by conservative MPs in the area.

The fact of the matter is that there’s nowhere near the demand to warrant the enormous expenditure. I’ve worked on this road in recent years and beyond the improved expressway to the north, you have sections in the south that are uncharacteristically quiet for a trunk road. Areas where you could virtually lie untroubled in the middle of the carriageway for a couple of minutes without seeing a single vehicle. It’s not the case either that neighbouring routes are currently experiencing congestion or poor journey times. The A68 functions well and I believe is an equally scenic route that many people prefer to take as it’s more direct and crucially it cuts out junctions on the A720 that you’d face if heading north (or to Edinburgh) via the A1.

There are other areas of the trunk road network in the south east that would benefit massively from improvements. The forth bridges are poorly connected to the likes of the A720, a route itself which has horrendous journey times because it’s in dire need of reconfiguration at several junctions. You also have legitimate calls for bypasses of towns like Selkirk which accommodates the A7. It’s town centre is sorely incapable of handling the constant flow of HGVs that opt for that route when entering Scotland.

Talk of improving the A1 is frustrating because it’s just about politics. It’s arguably already over-engineered and there are so many others parts of the network that of far greater priority to improve.
The A75 could benefit greatly from more 2+1 sections.
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