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A303Paul wrote:If they toll it, people will just use the A428 and A1 instead, the St Neots area will be a barrel of laughs.
I wish they would do it D3M properly, without a toll, and call it the M11 & A1(M).
St Neots in morning is already a nutcase quite often. Black Cat roundabout is clogged up almost every day and eastbound A428 to Caxton Gibbet is a nightmare. It adds 10-30 minutes to my commute.
They should make it a Motorway standard and call it A14(M)
Glom wrote:The fact that it is going to be freeflow charging will help a little. The very fact of not having to have correct change etc and have your run interrupted will make the burden seem less heavy.
I agree there - the big burden of Dartford is the queue to pay.
The flip side is fare evasion will go through the roof. I can't remember exactly how many millions of pounds a year they expect the dartford crossing to lose every year due to people not paying when the toll booths are removed, and it not being cost effective to chase up every single non-payer.
Glom wrote:The fact that it is going to be freeflow charging will help a little. The very fact of not having to have correct change etc and have your run interrupted will make the burden seem less heavy.
I agree there - the big burden of Dartford is the queue to pay.
The flip side is fare evasion will go through the roof. I can't remember exactly how many millions of pounds a year they expect the dartford crossing to lose every year due to people not paying when the toll booths are removed, and it not being cost effective to chase up every single non-payer.
They estimate it at £6 million. The question is what do you prefer, a free-flow traffic and a loss of £6 million or a lot more lost to the country's economy due to tailbacks, accidents, people being late to work and extra fuel burned in the queue.
echowarning wrote:There is a clear choice - either we fund the works by securing future revenue or we don't fund them at all.
The problem is that selective tolling is an unfair and iniquitous way to raise that revenue.
Why should people whose journeys take them on the A1(M) through North Yorkshire get their upgraded road at no charge, but those whose journeys take them on the A14 through Cambridgeshire have to pay? Either all roads need to be funded centrally, or they need to be funded at the point of use, but to make some people pay extra just because of where they happen to travel is not right.
The government needs to properly review its traffic-related income stream. Scrap tolls on all public roads. Scrap VED, which is a stupid tax. Put the extra tax needed on fuel. That is a much fairer system, and simpler to administer.
Stevie D wrote:The problem is that selective tolling is an unfair and iniquitous way to raise that revenue.
Why should people whose journeys take them on the A1(M) through North Yorkshire get their upgraded road at no charge, but those whose journeys take them on the A14 through Cambridgeshire have to pay? Either all roads need to be funded centrally, or they need to be funded at the point of use, but to make some people pay extra just because of where they happen to travel is not right.
The government needs to properly review its traffic-related income stream. Scrap tolls on all public roads. Scrap VED, which is a stupid tax. Put the extra tax needed on fuel. That is a much fairer system, and simpler to administer.
I won't disagree that it is unfair, but OTOH there don't appear to be any other options on the table - a complete review of VED, tolls and fuel duty is unlikely in a reasonable timeframe before this stretch of road turns into a bigger problem.
So, again I'd argue that £1 or £1.50 a trip would be worth it for me on this road, given the regular delays caused.
If people disagree, there are alternatives available after all.
That said, I would change my opinion if the proposed toll rises substantially above the indicated figures - I'd change my route from M11-A14-A1 to M11-M25-M1 if the toll was above £2.50.
But, echowarning, the alternatives are for drivers to use the local road network. This will adversely impact on me in terms of other journey times. And yes, I agree that I'm in the minority of having a property in the area affected; and that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, and all that. But it would be possible to improve roads to the benefit of everyone, but there seems a government driven insistence on making this a toll road, whereas miles of the A1 are being upgraded to Newcastle at no additional charge to motorists.
It's clearly a test case by the Gov. If they can get this one through, many more will follow, disrupting jouneys all over the place. So, fill out that survey, correct personal datails or not.
I would have preferred a completely new alignment, with a Girton design as outlined here, but I'm not sure how much more (or less) expensive it would be in the short and long term. Hopefully the latest engineers won't be too tied down with budgets and stuff and will actually be able to do the job properly.
echowarning wrote:I won't disagree that it is unfair, but OTOH there don't appear to be any other options on the table - a complete review of VED, tolls and fuel duty is unlikely in a reasonable timeframe before this stretch of road turns into a bigger problem.
That's the difference between strategy and rushing round like a headless chicken reacting to things too late.
I suspect that if they really wanted to do it they could have the review completed and in place long before the new road opens to traffic. Which means money coming in quicker than if they have to wait for the first traffic on the new road.
Stevie D wrote:Why should people whose journeys take them on the A1(M) through North Yorkshire get their upgraded road at no charge, but those whose journeys take them on the A14 through Cambridgeshire have to pay?
I agree with what you're saying, but the same could've been said of the M6 Toll. Perhaps as the A1(M) is a online upgrade the cost doesn't justify tolling? Which could then explain how other widening projects currently going on aren't being subjected to tolls too.
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Stevie D wrote:Why should people whose journeys take them on the A1(M) through North Yorkshire get their upgraded road at no charge, but those whose journeys take them on the A14 through Cambridgeshire have to pay?
I agree with what you're saying, but the same could've been said of the M6 Toll. Perhaps as the A1(M) is a online upgrade the cost doesn't justify tolling? Which could then explain how other widening projects currently going on aren't being subjected to tolls too.
The M6 Toll was entirely in addition to the existing road network, there was no downgrading or lessening of the M6, it doesn't sound like that's the case for the A14 proposal.
Just done the survey and made my feelings about the tolling very clear. I think it's totally unacceptable to toll such an important strategic route as this (and yes I think that applies to Dartford etc).
Apart from the tolling I'm unsure what's planned for the A1 section. It says widening of the A1 - hich must mean to D3 seeing as it's already D2? Are they intending to run a D2 A14 next tot he A1? Seems a stupid waste of land to do that.
Derek wrote:Just done the survey and made my feelings about the tolling very clear. I think it's totally unacceptable to toll such an important strategic route as this (and yes I think that applies to Dartford etc).
Apart from the tolling I'm unsure what's planned for the A1 section. It says widening of the A1 - hich must mean to D3 seeing as it's already D2? Are they intending to run a D2 A14 next tot he A1? Seems a stupid waste of land to do that.
Derek
I'd read it that the A1 would be upgraded to D3 from the point where the huntingdon southern bypass sliproads for traffic heading north joins.
Derek wrote:Just done the survey and made my feelings about the tolling very clear. I think it's totally unacceptable to toll such an important strategic route as this (and yes I think that applies to Dartford etc).
Apart from the tolling I'm unsure what's planned for the A1 section. It says widening of the A1 - hich must mean to D3 seeing as it's already D2? Are they intending to run a D2 A14 next tot he A1? Seems a stupid waste of land to do that.
Derek
I think if any new scheme involved multiplexing the A1 and A14 that would run the risk of repeating one of the main disadvantages of the current A14 set up, ie concentrating a big North-South flow and a big East-West flow onto a single piece of road. Better to keep them separate I think, even if they run alongside each other for a bit.
roadtester wrote:I think if any new scheme involved multiplexing the A1 and A14 that would run the risk of repeating one of the main disadvantages of the current A14 set up, ie concentrating a big North-South flow and a big East-West flow onto a single piece of road. Better to keep them separate I think, even if they run alongside each other for a bit.
I can't see the logic for this aversion to sharing road space. If the multiplex is so short that it creates weaving problems, then yes. But simply averted to this on principle, forcing the construction of parallel carriageways? Sorry, I can't see the logic. Rather the reverse: maximise the usage of whatever road space is available.
Keep the flows seperate - Like the A1(M) M62 it may have been possible to run together for but the didnt - this case is similar. Its a decent bit of engineering to choose this over and above the cheaper option. Also no roundabouts - even better !