A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by Bryn666 »

Chris Bertram wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 21:16
Hdeng16 wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 20:59 Most of the ferrybridge links are 50mph limited too though. I think.
They are, but how anyone would propose to carry out enforcement on them stumps me. Advisory limits for the bends, as is often seen elsewhere would seem far more sensible.
Blame the DMRB - what 40 years ago would have had advisory limits now has to have a mandatory one because apparently that huge sweeping M62 to A1 bend is just not big enough for someone to take at anything over 50.

I know I usually say limits exist for a reason but it's hard to defend examples like this one.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
NICK 647063
Member
Posts: 1717
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 17:48
Location: Leeds

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by NICK 647063 »

Bryn666 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 00:16
Chris Bertram wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 21:16
Hdeng16 wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 20:59 Most of the ferrybridge links are 50mph limited too though. I think.
They are, but how anyone would propose to carry out enforcement on them stumps me. Advisory limits for the bends, as is often seen elsewhere would seem far more sensible.
Blame the DMRB - what 40 years ago would have had advisory limits now has to have a mandatory one because apparently that huge sweeping M62 to A1 bend is just not big enough for someone to take at anything over 50.

I know I usually say limits exist for a reason but it's hard to defend examples like this one.
The ferrybridge slips roads can easily be taken at National speed limit but I have noticed a few times West Yorkshire police have posted about catching a number of speeders here, so it does seem they enforce it.
Hdeng16
Member
Posts: 539
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 20:47

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by Hdeng16 »

Chris Bertram wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 21:16
Hdeng16 wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 20:59 Most of the ferrybridge links are 50mph limited too though. I think.
They are, but how anyone would propose to carry out enforcement on them stumps me. Advisory limits for the bends, as is often seen elsewhere would seem far more sensible.
Yep / completely agree. As per comments in this thread, they’re actually well designed and 50mph is over the top in my view.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19205
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by KeithW »

Bryn666 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 00:16
Chris Bertram wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 21:16
Hdeng16 wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 20:59 Most of the ferrybridge links are 50mph limited too though. I think.
They are, but how anyone would propose to carry out enforcement on them stumps me. Advisory limits for the bends, as is often seen elsewhere would seem far more sensible.
Blame the DMRB - what 40 years ago would have had advisory limits now has to have a mandatory one because apparently that huge sweeping M62 to A1 bend is just not big enough for someone to take at anything over 50.

I know I usually say limits exist for a reason but it's hard to defend examples like this one.
It is big enough for cars but commercial vehicles are easier to tip over as many a truck driver has found on slip roads at the A19/A66 GSJ, see below for an overturned truck at J41 on the A1(M) at Ferrybridge.
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds ... c-14551276
User avatar
Stevie D
Member
Posts: 8000
Joined: Wed Dec 20, 2006 17:19
Location: Yorkshire

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by Stevie D »

Chris Bertram wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 21:16
Hdeng16 wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 20:59 Most of the ferrybridge links are 50mph limited too though. I think.
They are, but how anyone would propose to carry out enforcement on them stumps me. Advisory limits for the bends, as is often seen elsewhere would seem far more sensible.
The biggest issue for me with the Ferrybridge junction is the very poor visibility where the sliproads onto the A1(M) northbound merge – if you're coming off the M62 eastbound then you have very little view of what's coming up the sliproad that you have to give way to and a very short merge, and so if someone is doing 70 in the left-hand lane there then you're screwed. Similarly, where the sliproads merge heading onto the M62 westbound, and you have a tiger tail that turns out to be a Manx tail and you suddenly find that you unexpectedly have your lane closing immediately and without any warning, if traffic is tanking along there then you don't have any time to react to the appalling road layout. The actual alignment at 70 should not trouble any moderately competent driver in normal conditions, it's what's happening outside your lane that means you need to stick to a lower speed.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by Bryn666 »

KeithW wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:47
Bryn666 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 00:16
Chris Bertram wrote: Sat Aug 07, 2021 21:16 They are, but how anyone would propose to carry out enforcement on them stumps me. Advisory limits for the bends, as is often seen elsewhere would seem far more sensible.
Blame the DMRB - what 40 years ago would have had advisory limits now has to have a mandatory one because apparently that huge sweeping M62 to A1 bend is just not big enough for someone to take at anything over 50.

I know I usually say limits exist for a reason but it's hard to defend examples like this one.
It is big enough for cars but commercial vehicles are easier to tip over as many a truck driver has found on slip roads at the A19/A66 GSJ, see below for an overturned truck at J41 on the A1(M) at Ferrybridge.
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds ... c-14551276
So an advisory speed limit for HGVs would have been a more targeted measure, but we can't have that because apparently despite such things being widespread in Europe, it'd be "too confusing" for us.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
WHBM
Member
Posts: 9707
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 18:01
Location: London

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by WHBM »

Bryn666 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:59 So an advisory speed limit for HGVs would have been a more targeted measure, but we can't have that because apparently despite such things being widespread in Europe, it'd be "too confusing" for us.
Advisory speed limits are not revenue generating.
fras
Member
Posts: 3590
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 18:34

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by fras »

WHBM wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 13:17
Bryn666 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:59 So an advisory speed limit for HGVs would have been a more targeted measure, but we can't have that because apparently despite such things being widespread in Europe, it'd be "too confusing" for us.
Advisory speed limits are not revenue generating.
As in every candidate for a Speed Awareness Course netting the plod £40 from the £100 fee.

About time the DMRB was abolished ! Are highways engineers regarded as so thick and stupid they can't be trusted with roads design and their speed limits ?
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by Bryn666 »

fras wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 13:27
WHBM wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 13:17
Bryn666 wrote: Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:59 So an advisory speed limit for HGVs would have been a more targeted measure, but we can't have that because apparently despite such things being widespread in Europe, it'd be "too confusing" for us.
Advisory speed limits are not revenue generating.
As in every candidate for a Speed Awareness Course netting the plod £40 from the £100 fee.

About time the DMRB was abolished ! Are highways engineers regarded as so thick and stupid they can't be trusted with roads design and their speed limits ?
No, design speed is determined by a list of mathematical formulae that are sound, apart from being extremely conservative.

The problem is engineers don't have the support from yes men project leaders to ever apply engineering judgement and just do whatever the client wants even if it is patently absurd. This is why the A14 Z bend despite being worse in alignment than Ferrybridge hasn't got a speed limit, because no doubt the project manager didn't want one whereas the other one did.

The industry is too top heavy, too many "decision makers" shouldn't even be trusted with the tea run let alone choosing whether or not to go two steps below desirable design minimum.

The other problem is BIM compliance, which is entirely about making paperwork and not good design. This is partly why everything is cut and paste, because BIM compliance requires every file to be numbered, stored, categorised, etc. It's therefore much cheaper to have a single set of design items that have no local variation whatsoever rather than spend time and effort creating new files to comply with BIM requirements.

As ever, the British fetish for administration and bureaucracy along with needless cost cutting to placate Excel spreadsheet wonks rather than providing a workable end product means we spend more time on paperwork and "risk" mitigation than we do in developing a decent scheme.

I'd love to know how other countries, which also use BIM, manage to do a much better job. Maybe it's because they spend the money rather than doing everything for two bob.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
fras
Member
Posts: 3590
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 18:34

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by fras »

Here's a nice one !
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.97559 ... 8192?hl=en
Its the entry slip northbound at Jn 15 M6. Whatever you do, don't try to get up to 60 at the sign !!
Here's GSV 2009 view
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.97558 ... 6656?hl=en
When we first moved to Crewe there was no speed limit on this 270degree and very tight curve, but I don't think it was accident prone, as in vehicle overturning. Motorist and HGV driver discretion prevented them. Then a few years ago a 20 mph limit was put in, even though its pretty difficult to do more. The bend tightens up as you go round, by the way !

It seems to me, use of advisory limits are the way to go in most adverse road geometry situations, not all, of course.
roadphotos
Member
Posts: 1077
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2017 19:28

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by roadphotos »

The new A1307 Views Common Link Road (part of the A14 improvement scheme) at Huntingdon opened to traffic yesterday (September 3rd)
User avatar
ManomayLR
Social Media Admin
Posts: 3331
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:47
Location: London, UK

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by ManomayLR »

I know it’s an A road, but the A14 should be getting stopped vehicle detection just like the other Managed Motorways
Though roads may not put a smile on everyone's face, there is one road that always will: the road to home.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19205
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by KeithW »

EpicChef wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 14:51 I know it’s an A road, but the A14 should be getting stopped vehicle detection just like the other Managed Motorways
The trouble is that the A14 is 130 miles or so in length, most is D2 and has no hard shoulders and limited camera coverage, personally I would favour moderate improvements on the really dangerous bit between the A1 and Ellington than gold plating the 22 mile long new section.

There are lots of other strategic roads of similar importance to the A14 that this applies to including the A1, A6, A11, A19, A127, A13, A34,A41, A43 etc.
B1040
Member
Posts: 2284
Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2007 15:51
Location: fenland

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by B1040 »

roadphotos wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:14 The new A1307 Views Common Link Road (part of the A14 improvement scheme) at Huntingdon opened to traffic yesterday (September 3rd)
It will be interesting to see the impact on traffic.
It will probably reduce congestion on Ermine Street. It might reduce congestion on the A141 northern bypass.
The cost may be terrible congestion on Brampton road around the station and railway bridge.
User avatar
ManomayLR
Social Media Admin
Posts: 3331
Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2016 11:47
Location: London, UK

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by ManomayLR »

KeithW wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 15:51
EpicChef wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 14:51 I know it’s an A road, but the A14 should be getting stopped vehicle detection just like the other Managed Motorways
The trouble is that the A14 is 130 miles or so in length, most is D2 and has no hard shoulders and limited camera coverage, personally I would favour moderate improvements on the really dangerous bit between the A1 and Ellington than gold plating the 22 mile long new section.
I see your point, but perhaps if local residents realize the similarities they will start to demand SVD on their new pseudo-managed-motorway. If that happens what do we do? Say “this is an A road so the stocktake doesn’t apply?” Maybe that’s why National Highways are making the LTC A122. To get out of SVD.
Though roads may not put a smile on everyone's face, there is one road that always will: the road to home.
User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 11162
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by c2R »

EpicChef wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 20:09
KeithW wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 15:51
EpicChef wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 14:51 I know it’s an A road, but the A14 should be getting stopped vehicle detection just like the other Managed Motorways
The trouble is that the A14 is 130 miles or so in length, most is D2 and has no hard shoulders and limited camera coverage, personally I would favour moderate improvements on the really dangerous bit between the A1 and Ellington than gold plating the 22 mile long new section.
I see your point, but perhaps if local residents realize the similarities they will start to demand SVD on their new pseudo-managed-motorway. If that happens what do we do? Say “this is an A road so the stocktake doesn’t apply?” Maybe that’s why National Highways are making the LTC A122. To get out of SVD.
The other aspect of it is that there's ample verges along pretty much all of the length to get out of the way of the traffic. Many of the motorways that have been smartified had already been widened within the existing highway boundary previously, and therefore there is less space to actually get off the carriageway.
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 11162
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by c2R »

Drove the new link road from Spittals south into Huntingdon this evening. Under Spittals itself is now D1.

The new roundabout is a classic, with two exits both signed "all directions".
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by Bryn666 »

c2R wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 22:55 Drove the new link road from Spittals south into Huntingdon this evening. Under Spittals itself is now D1.

The new roundabout is a classic, with two exits both signed "all directions".
Is the amount of traffic expected to head under Spittals even worth retaining the dual carriageway for?

I'm guessing they've not bothered to change to the diverge to a lane drop, instead going for a right hand taper under the roundabout? The fork signs around there were pretty dire last time I was there with obviously "we've done the changes now" coverplates everywhere that don't appear to be getting replaced any time soon.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 11162
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by c2R »

Bryn666 wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 10:57
c2R wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 22:55 Drove the new link road from Spittals south into Huntingdon this evening. Under Spittals itself is now D1.

The new roundabout is a classic, with two exits both signed "all directions".
Is the amount of traffic expected to head under Spittals even worth retaining the dual carriageway for?

I'm guessing they've not bothered to change to the diverge to a lane drop, instead going for a right hand taper under the roundabout? The fork signs around there were pretty dire last time I was there with obviously "we've done the changes now" coverplates everywhere that don't appear to be getting replaced any time soon.
The southbound carriageway has a speed limit of 40 mph applied from before Spittals. The southbound diverge for Spittals has a lane drop with lane 1 going up to the roundabout. Lane 2 continues underneath. A single lane joins southbound and lane 2 merges into it. It then meets the new roundabout which doesn't seem to have any ADS (unless I missed it somehow) telling you what the layout would be.


Patching of the A1307 south at the old A1198 junction is just green A1307 over the former A14 signs in many places.
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
User avatar
Chris5156
Deputy Treasurer
Posts: 16909
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2001 21:50
Location: Hampshire
Contact:

Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by Chris5156 »

c2R wrote: Wed Sep 29, 2021 22:55 Drove the new link road from Spittals south into Huntingdon this evening. Under Spittals itself is now D1.

The new roundabout is a classic, with two exits both signed "all directions".
Reminds me of the signs on a roundabout just outside IKEA Leeds that say “alternative route to all destinations”, a sign that could point down literally any road in the country that isn’t a dead end :?
Post Reply