A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

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roadtester
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by roadtester »

Never mind banning or not banning - why do the cycle clubs think it's a good ide at hold their time trials on these roads? I know they're straight and level but must be unsuitable in every other respect.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

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roadtester wrote: I know they're straight and level but must be unsuitable in every other respect.
Straight(ish) and level(ish) are the key requirements, there are no other respects. In the absence of any dedicated facilities in the country, D2s are the best option. There are a few road test tracks around which may be usable (Milbrook? Gaydon?) but they tend to be privately owned (so too expensive), busy at weekends with paying customers and there are not enough of them for the number of cyclists wanting to time trial.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

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Alderpoint wrote:
roadtester wrote: I know they're straight and level but must be unsuitable in every other respect.
Straight(ish) and level(ish) are the key requirements, there are no other respects. In the absence of any dedicated facilities in the country, D2s are the best option. There are a few road test tracks around which may be usable (Milbrook? Gaydon?) but they tend to be privately owned (so too expensive), busy at weekends with paying customers and there are not enough of them for the number of cyclists wanting to time trial.
Well I'd have thought the other respects might include the dangers of cycling on a road that is a motorway in all but name, with the associated risk of being mown down.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by Alderpoint »

roadtester wrote:Well I'd have thought the other respects might include the dangers of cycling on a road that is a motorway in all but name, with the associated risk of being mown down.
From my understanding from friends who do this, such risks are seriously considered (hence the signage), but actual incidents are fortunately very rare.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by roadtester »

A recent run of bad incidents on the A14 near Cambridge - whether statistically significant or not, I am not sure - is highlighted by the local rag, with the poor standard of the existing road inevitably being mentioned:

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/ca ... d-13330439
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by darkcape »

The article doesn't mention the two closures at Huntingdon for pothole repairs, which although not caused by an accident also highlights the current poor state of the road. Last night SB at Godmanchester a lane was shut due to an accident between a coach full of schoolkids and a lorry.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by rhyds »

Alderpoint wrote:
roadtester wrote: I know they're straight and level but must be unsuitable in every other respect.
Straight(ish) and level(ish) are the key requirements, there are no other respects. In the absence of any dedicated facilities in the country, D2s are the best option. There are a few road test tracks around which may be usable (Milbrook? Gaydon?) but they tend to be privately owned (so too expensive), busy at weekends with paying customers and there are not enough of them for the number of cyclists wanting to time trial.
Rockingham circuit near Corby does cycling events reasonably often, as I'm sure do other racing circuits. Claiming that vital trunk routes *have* to be used for cycling time trials as there are no other facilities is as ridiculous as saying they should be used for drag racing (Both the Motorsport and the entertainment variety) or as emergency runways for light aircraft.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

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roadtester wrote: I've no idea what the rights and wrongs of the incident involving the bicycle are but surely on any sensible view there's no place for cyclists on this sort of road? Does anyone know whether there will be any restrictions on the new bit?
Thinking about it, once the new A14 opens, the old A14 is still available for its entire length as a local access route, isn't it?

So, there's no reason that the new A14 shouldn't be a motorway. Is it possible that the authorities will simply decide that the new A14 section will be numbered A14(M)? Or have they decided against that?

The new road is motorway standard anyway, so it's simply a case of putting up blue signs rather than green ones.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by c2R »

6637 wrote:
roadtester wrote: I've no idea what the rights and wrongs of the incident involving the bicycle are but surely on any sensible view there's no place for cyclists on this sort of road? Does anyone know whether there will be any restrictions on the new bit?
Thinking about it, once the new A14 opens, the old A14 is still available for its entire length as a local access route, isn't it?

So, there's no reason that the new A14 shouldn't be a motorway. Is it possible that the authorities will simply decide that the new A14 section will be numbered A14(M)? Or have they decided against that?

The new road is motorway standard anyway, so it's simply a case of putting up blue signs rather than green ones.

They've decided against that and used a number of flakey reasons, such as wanting to have continuity in road numbering and classification for the A14....
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by SouthWest Philip »

6637 wrote:Thinking about it, once the new A14 opens, the old A14 is still available for its entire length as a local access route, isn't it?
Yes and no. The section bypassing Huntingdon is going to be destroyed by the removal, and non replacement, of the viaduct over the East Coast main line. So any alternative route would either through the town centre of villages around it.

But, yes, I agree that all of the new build should really be designated motorway and built as such (ie with hard shoulders etc).
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

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6637 wrote:
roadtester wrote: I've no idea what the rights and wrongs of the incident involving the bicycle are but surely on any sensible view there's no place for cyclists on this sort of road? Does anyone know whether there will be any restrictions on the new bit?
Thinking about it, once the new A14 opens, the old A14 is still available for its entire length as a local access route, isn't it?

So, there's no reason that the new A14 shouldn't be a motorway. Is it possible that the authorities will simply decide that the new A14 section will be numbered A14(M)? Or have they decided against that?

The new road is motorway standard anyway, so it's simply a case of putting up blue signs rather than green ones.
The old A14 will NOT be available for its entire length if for no other reason than that the Huntingdon Railway Viaduct will be torn down and the new A14 takes a quite different route from Fen Drayton passing well to the south of the current route and joining the A1 at Brampton Hut.There will be a new LAR reusing part of the existing A14 between Fen Drayton and Girton.

Given that the roads at either end are non motorway there really is no point in jumping through the political hoops and paying the financial costs of making it a motorway. There is MUCH more involved than just putting up new signs. Cyclists can already use the whole length from Felixstowe to Catthorpe and Alconbury anyway just as they can use the A1 from Peterborough to Blyth. In over 35 years of regularly using the A1 and 20 years of using the A14 road (last time was yesterday) I can recall seeing just 2 cyclists. That was in Lincolnshire over 20 years ago and was on the short section between the then Markham Moor roundabout and West Drayton Avenue. Usually when pedestrians or cyclists are seen on these routes a police patrol will give then some friendly advice on the best alternative to reach their destination. I have seen pedestrians on the A14 much more frequently usually trying to get across the road.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

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KeithW wrote: Given that the roads at either end are non motorway
Not true, the M11 to the south and A1(M) to the north are both motorway
there really is no point in jumping through the political hoops and paying the financial costs of making it a motorway. There is MUCH more involved than just putting up new signs.
Sure, you'd need the legal orders, but then again, a lot of legislative work was needed anyway to compulsorily purchase the land. Also, I believe that the new road will ban pedestrians, cyclists, and horses, as well as horse drawn vehicles. I don't see why it should be more costly therefore to designate the new road as a motorway, do the relevant orders, and make it consistent on the map that this is essentially a road for motor vehicles and not a playground for cyclists...
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by owen b »

rhyds wrote:
Alderpoint wrote:
roadtester wrote: I know they're straight and level but must be unsuitable in every other respect.
Straight(ish) and level(ish) are the key requirements, there are no other respects. In the absence of any dedicated facilities in the country, D2s are the best option. There are a few road test tracks around which may be usable (Milbrook? Gaydon?) but they tend to be privately owned (so too expensive), busy at weekends with paying customers and there are not enough of them for the number of cyclists wanting to time trial.
Rockingham circuit near Corby does cycling events reasonably often, as I'm sure do other racing circuits. Claiming that vital trunk routes *have* to be used for cycling time trials as there are no other facilities is as ridiculous as saying they should be used for drag racing (Both the Motorsport and the entertainment variety) or as emergency runways for light aircraft.
I would have thought that the B1043 from Stilton to Alconbury (the local access road for the A1(M)) must be about the best public road in the UK for a cycling time trial. S2, light traffic, straight, one very gentle rise southbound towards Alconbury, modern piece of road, four very easy roundabouts which usually a cyclist wouldn't need to slow down significantly for, no settlements, and about 10 miles long. Not that far from Newmarket either. I wonder why cyclists were on the A14 :o .

I'm very much like my cycling and I'm not afraid of using short sections of NSL D2 roads, but I have little sympathy for using strategic dual carriageways for time trials.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

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c2R wrote:
KeithW wrote: Given that the roads at either end are non motorway
Not true, the M11 to the south and A1(M) to the north are both motorway
The A14 runs from Felixstowe to Catthorpe
The A1 at Brampton Hut is not a Motorway the A1(M) starts a few miles north
there really is no point in jumping through the political hoops and paying the financial costs of making it a motorway. There is MUCH more involved than just putting up new signs.
c2R wrote: Sure, you'd need the legal orders, but then again, a lot of legislative work was needed anyway to compulsorily purchase the land. Also, I believe that the new road will ban pedestrians, cyclists, and horses, as well as horse drawn vehicles. I don't see why it should be more costly therefore to designate the new road as a motorway, do the relevant orders, and make it consistent on the map that this is essentially a road for motor vehicles and not a playground for cyclists...
Your belief is inconsequential and nobody including cycling groups has suggested it is a playground for them. It would be quite possible to introduce TRO's to restrict cycling if that were deemed necessary. The reality is that making the new A14 section a motorway would have raised a higher level of political protest if nothing else. The A14 is 137 miles long and the new section is less than 20 miles in length. Making that section a motorway would achieve nothing and carry a high cost. At the very least you would be adding motorway standard hard shoulders and barriers and that is not free.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by roadtester »

KeithW wrote: The A1 at Brampton Hut is not a Motorway the A1(M) starts a few miles north.
But A1 Brampton Hut to Alconbury is being massively upgraded/widened/renewed/rebuilt as part of the A14 project so in principle that could be blue-lined as well.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

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clicked the wrong button
Last edited by c2R on Sun Jul 16, 2017 08:25, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by c2R »

KeithW wrote:
Your belief is inconsequential and nobody including cycling groups has suggested it is a playground for them. It would be quite possible to introduce TRO's to restrict cycling if that were deemed necessary. The reality is that making the new A14 section a motorway would have raised a higher level of political protest if nothing else. The A14 is 137 miles long and the new section is less than 20 miles in length. Making that section a motorway would achieve nothing and carry a high cost. At the very least you would be adding motorway standard hard shoulders and barriers and that is not free.

Some corrections for you:
- "I believe" is a term of phrase and not an inconsequently whimsy: TROs are planned for the road.
- Some cycling forums have members who see differently and there were many objections to the scheme at the planning stage on the grounds that it unfairly prohibited cyclists
- It is not true that a motorway needs to have additional hard shoulders or barriers so there should not be additional costs
- the scheme includes a realignment of the A1 between Brampton Hut and Alconbury and local access road, so a continuous motorway route between the M11 and A1 at Alconbury could be designated

There are two main advantages as I see it for building this as a motorway. The first is that to all intents and purposes it will be one, providing a continuous motorway standard route from London to Peterborough via the M11 and local access roads will be provided for non motorway traffic. The second is that there is an anomoly that in my opinion needs to be closed where on non motorway roads HGVs may use all lanes. The M25 suffers from HGVs overtaking in lanes 1-3 during daytime non-rush hours, leaving a large amount of wasted road space as car drivers all end up in lane 4. This problem could be worse on the A14 with HGVs overtaking in all lanes.

I had heard (and this could of course be inconsequential) that changes may also need to be made as a result of not building this as a motorway to the legislation around variable speed limits to allow them to be applied to a non-motorway.

As far as I see it, the only reason for designating it an all purpose road is to avoid political protest from people who still believe a blue line on a map is bad.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by Johnathan404 »

Motorway building in England appears to be dead. It's as if planners simply don't know the option is available to them...

...unless it's the A1. As is always the case with England's road network, you have two completely different policies at either end of the country.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by Berk »

KeithW wrote:
6637 wrote:
roadtester wrote: I've no idea what the rights and wrongs of the incident involving the bicycle are but surely on any sensible view there's no place for cyclists on this sort of road? Does anyone know whether there will be any restrictions on the new bit?
Thinking about it, once the new A14 opens, the old A14 is still available for its entire length as a local access route, isn't it?

So, there's no reason that the new A14 shouldn't be a motorway. Is it possible that the authorities will simply decide that the new A14 section will be numbered A14(M)? Or have they decided against that?

The new road is motorway standard anyway, so it's simply a case of putting up blue signs rather than green ones.
The old A14 will NOT be available for its entire length if for no other reason than that the Huntingdon Railway Viaduct will be torn down and the new A14 takes a quite different route from Fen Drayton passing well to the south of the current route and joining the A1 at Brampton Hut.There will be a new LAR reusing part of the existing A14 between Fen Drayton and Girton.

Given that the roads at either end are non motorway there really is no point in jumping through the political hoops and paying the financial costs of making it a motorway. There is MUCH more involved than just putting up new signs. Cyclists can already use the whole length from Felixstowe to Catthorpe and Alconbury anyway just as they can use the A1 from Peterborough to Blyth. In over 35 years of regularly using the A1 and 20 years of using the A14 road (last time was yesterday) I can recall seeing just 2 cyclists. That was in Lincolnshire over 20 years ago and was on the short section between the then Markham Moor roundabout and West Drayton Avenue. Usually when pedestrians or cyclists are seen on these routes a police patrol will give then some friendly advice on the best alternative to reach their destination. I have seen pedestrians on the A14 much more frequently usually trying to get across the road.
I'm afraid I have seen and heard quite a few stories of people cycling on the A1 (including a man who sadly died), which leads me to believe it isn't an isolated occurrence, unfortunately.

Added to the (rather foolhardy) people who use the Paston Parkway/A15 in Peterborough to cycle to work - I see cyclists at least two or three times a month, and I think the education message needs to be driven home a lot harder. Using the A15 is inexcusable - there are plenty of non-parkway alternatives, such as the roads that were bypassed.
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Re: A14 Cambridge to Huntingdon "news"

Post by Berk »

Johnathan404 wrote:Motorway building in England appears to be dead. It's as if planners simply don't know the option is available to them...

...unless it's the A1. As is always the case with England's road network, you have two completely different policies at either end of the country.
I have wondered what a new-build motorway today would look like. Would it be able to keep its hard shoulders for their original purpose, or would it be 'smart from the start' - even if the gantries weren't commissioned to begin with??

That reminds me - I was looking at some pictures of the M1 at Leicester Forest East, close to the services (I think they're 50 years old or something). In 1967, the motorway was D3M, with a generous hard shoulder. Fast forward to 2017, and the motorway now seems to be D4M, but with a very thin hard shoulder - hardly big enough to park a bike on.
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