A344; is this a 'live' A Road, or not

[NICK 647063]

If the A303 gets diverted along the A358 between Horton Cross and the M5, the section of A303 west of Horton Cross will presumably need a new number.

I suspect although A303 traffic will be sent onto the upgraded A358 it shall remain the A358, obviously they want to create the A303/A358 into an expressway once the whole route is upgraded this will ultimately mean the the A303 will need to be free flow straight into the A358 but I’ve not heard any news of a number change, it will likely become another one of those daft routes with 2 numbers just like the A419/A417 route.

[Euan]

Whilst browsing StreetView the other day, I noticed that captures of the A344 are still live - probably from 2011 or 2012, I haven’t checked them out on my PC yet.

But well before both the road closed and the new Visitor Centre had opened. It’s a valuable piece of historical evidence, well worth a look.

It looks like the road has been driven on by a Google vehicle at least once since GSV's launch which was a couple of years before the A344 was closed. Oddly only a very limited amount of street footage is available along the line of the road, suggesting that the rest of the photography was thrown out when the road was closed so as not to give a false impression that the road is still there. On a side note, further along the former route on Street View there is an excellent shot from the sky of Stonehenge and the former road running alongside it.

[Owain]

If the A303 gets diverted along the A358 between Horton Cross and the M5, the section of A303 west of Horton Cross will presumably need a new number.

I suspect although A303 traffic will be sent onto the upgraded A358 it shall remain the A358, obviously they want to create the A303/A358 into an expressway once the whole route is upgraded this will ultimately mean the the A303 will need to be free flow straight into the A358 but I’ve not heard any news of a number change, it will likely become another one of those daft routes with 2 numbers just like the A419/A417 route.

Personally, I would make a fully-dualled A303-A358 from Popham to Taunton the A30. The existing A303 between Ilminster and Honiton could remain A303. The old A30 between Bullington and Upottery would then become the new A344.

[Berk]

I would support that.

[multiraider2]

If the A303 gets diverted along the A358 between Horton Cross and the M5, the section of A303 west of Horton Cross will presumably need a new number.

I suspect although A303 traffic will be sent onto the upgraded A358 it shall remain the A358, obviously they want to create the A303/A358 into an expressway once the whole route is upgraded this will ultimately mean the the A303 will need to be free flow straight into the A358 but I’ve not heard any news of a number change, it will likely become another one of those daft routes with 2 numbers just like the A419/A417 route.

Personally, I would make a fully-dualled A303-A358 from Popham to Taunton the A30. The existing A303 between Ilminster and Honiton could remain A303. The old A30 between Bullington and Upottery would then become the new A344.

That sounds good to me also. The cheapest of all will be to leave the numbering intact but after the freeflow route takes drivers along the dualled A358, "tape over" any references to Exeter along the old route from Ilminster. They probably won't want the A303 to still be listed as live from Ilminster to Honiton though, so renumber it as something in the B303* sequence. None of those numbers are currently available, so take the B3032 number which has only a couple of live signs near Pirbright and won't need much in a renumbering, then some gaffer tape and paint can sort out the old A303. I'm being somewhat tongue-in-cheek of course but money's tight and it wouldn't be the first time.

[Berk]

The thing is Devon are trying to build piecemeal improvements to their bit of the A303.

Downgrade it and there’s a risk it might not happen. Think about the locals (cf Winterbourne Stoke). They have to drive the road all times of year, not just holiday times.

But the first bit, I do agree with. HE would probably insist on it anyway.

[Jim606]

I thought about another follow up to the discussion about 3m or 4m wide pedestrian routes over on the 'Stonehenge Bored Tunnel Option' thread, which would be better posted here.

I believe English Heritage had initially demarcated a narrow pedestrian route alongside the closed A344, however, this proved to be unsuitable for people walking between the Visitor Centre at Airman's Corner and the stones. They have subsequently created a 2km+ long pedestrian route by renting land parallel to the old (A344) road. This separates pedestrians from the shuttle buses in a much safer manner.

As mentioned on the other thread the (A344) shuttle buses replaced the former 'land rover-land trains'

https://www.salisburyjournal.co.uk/news ... -heritage/,

Stonehenge visitor 'land trains'

THE fleet of land trains which shuttled tourists to Stonehenge from the visitor centre have been scrapped, English Heritage confirmed. They have been out of action for more than a year and since then visitors have caught buses to the monument. English Heritage say that when in operation between December 2013 and December 2014 they transported approximately 1.3 million visitors. However, they struggled to cope with the high demand and will now be used at another English Heritage site.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-w ... e-42707970 English Heritage has unveiled a new fleet of buses to transport visitors between a visitor centre and the Stonehenge monument in Wiltshire. When the £27m visitor centre opened in December 2013, land trains were used to ferry visitors to the stones. However, these were taken out of service following complaints about long queues and inadequate transport. English Heritage admitted there had been issues with the land trains and said the new buses were more efficient. The six vehicles can each carry up to 80 passengers on the 1.5-mile (2.4 km) journey which takes five minutes.

Stonehenge visitor buses

I do wonder if these buses will also get superseded, as the (downgraded A344) must surely form a perfect place for an autonomous taxi service?

[KeithW]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-w ... e-42707970 English Heritage has unveiled a new fleet of buses to transport visitors between a visitor centre and the Stonehenge monument in Wiltshire. When the £27m visitor centre opened in December 2013, land trains were used to ferry visitors to the stones. However, these were taken out of service following complaints about long queues and inadequate transport. English Heritage admitted there had been issues with the land trains and said the new buses were more efficient. The six vehicles can each carry up to 80 passengers on the 1.5-mile (2.4 km) journey which takes five minutes. _99619033_dtpvgqexcaamnlc.jpg-large.jpg

I do wonder if these buses will also get superseded, as the (downgraded A344) must surely form a perfect place for an autonomous taxi service?

Isnt Stonehenge already expensive enough to get into (£20+ per person) without loading more cost onto it ?

[RichardA35]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-w ... e-42707970 English Heritage has unveiled a new fleet of buses to transport visitors between a visitor centre and the Stonehenge monument in Wiltshire. When the £27m visitor centre opened in December 2013, land trains were used to ferry visitors to the stones. However, these were taken out of service following complaints about long queues and inadequate transport. English Heritage admitted there had been issues with the land trains and said the new buses were more efficient. The six vehicles can each carry up to 80 passengers on the 1.5-mile (2.4 km) journey which takes five minutes. _99619033_dtpvgqexcaamnlc.jpg-large.jpg

I do wonder if these buses will also get superseded, as the (downgraded A344) must surely form a perfect place for an autonomous taxi service?

Isnt Stonehenge already expensive enough to get into (£20+ per person) without loading more cost onto it ?

At this point, search the internet for "get into Stonehenge for free" and there are many ways to achieve this legally.

[solocle]

I do wonder if these buses will also get superseded, as the (downgraded A344) must surely form a perfect place for an autonomous taxi service?

Isnt Stonehenge already expensive enough to get into (£20+ per person) without loading more cost onto it ?

At this point, search the internet for "get into Stonehenge for free" and there are many ways to achieve this legally.

Like so.

The former A344 is a permissive path, so it's not like there are no members of the public using it.

[Jim606]

Isnt Stonehenge already expensive enough to get into (£20+ per person) without loading more cost onto it ?

Yes, Stonehenge is a 'cash cow' for English Heritage and the National Trust. The monies however, do go towards the upkeep of less profitable sites.

At this point, search the internet for "get into Stonehenge for free" and there are many ways to achieve this legally.

&...

The former A344 is a permissive path, so it's not like there are no members of the public using it.

Agreed, the last time I went, I didn't fancy paying the parking fees for the summer solstice. You can either park in Larkhill or Durrington and walk via Byway 12 or across the fields and see the stones for free via the 'Permissible Path' (aka the old A344). ...& yes they're plenty of others who have sussed it as well.

One of the main points I want to make here is the old A344 effectively functions as a private access road for EH, the NT, local farmers, service contractors etc. Gone are the days when you could simply drive down it and park up by the stones. There was a separate issue with access to Byway 12 from the A303. But, leaving that aside, the old A344 is now only really used by EH's shuttle buses going from the Visitor Centre to the stones and back.

Stonehenge is incredibly popular, despite the high entry charges! The number of visitors keeps going up and in the last full year before lockdown a new record of 1.3m people made the trip. This brings me onto the autonomous vehicles/taxis and whether the old A344 represents a good location for such a system. The journey is very simple literally back and forth, time and time again, there are few, if any other vehicles on the road and pedestrians are now mainly accommodated on a parallel path running across the nearby fields. I reckon it won't be long before a companies like https://zoox.com/ (& many others) make a pitch for the business?

https://medium.com/swlh/the-driverless- ... af44ab22f2 The HOP ON Experience
An example of an actual driverless shuttle in service is HOP ON, which is also being offered for free (as of writing). The autonomous driverless shuttle, designed by Navya, is sponsored by the AAA (American Automobile Association) and operated by Keolis to run a 3/5 mile loop in downtown Las Vegas. It is a rather short route, but it gives riders a sense and feel of the driverless experience. There is no steering wheel or pedal anywhere in the shuttle. There is a human safety operator and also guide who explains the way the shuttle works to the riders. Safety is a primary concern, so the shuttle has been programmed to go no more than 35 miles per hour.

Hop-On shuttle taxi

I guess it all comes down to cost. How much does it cost EH to run a fleet of buses / pay the drivers etc. vs how much would autonomous people movers be in comparison? If it is more cost effective, and people would be happy using such a system, then it could happen? The final point goes back to the original question about the old A344 status as a live road and how would the regulations about autonomous vehicles apply?

[Big L]

Lots of Stonehenge visitors will be NT or EH members that get free/included parking and entrance to sites. I've been in a couple of times without parting with any extra cash.

[Jim606]

Whilst looking at a F/B group about Managed Open Access (MOA) at Stonehenge re; Summer / Winter Solstice & the Equinoxes. I noticed the A344 being referred to as the C506. I've never actually seen this number used before. Although, (A344) was still in brackets afterwards, so I guess, the old number is still used to reference the road in a colloquial manner.

On a different note, I still believe the C506 (A344) provides an excellent environment for some kind of autonomous shuttle buses when the technology and regulations reach a cost effective and safety compliant level to make it a goer. It's an 'restricted environment' (semi-private road) with only the driver operated shuttles buses (running to and from the Visitor Centre to the stones), farm and emergency access vehicles, plus NMU users allowed. It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years.