A344; is this a 'live' A Road, or not

[Nicholas]

If the A303 gets diverted along the A358 between Horton Cross and the M5, the section of A303 west of Horton Cross will presumably need a new number.

Or just swap them over.

[vlad]

If the A303 gets diverted along the A358 between Horton Cross and the M5, the section of A303 west of Horton Cross will presumably need a new number.

A3303 is spare (as are a couple of other numbers) - but after it's detrunked it may well end up being downgraded further. It's a shame there's already a B3169....

[Nicholas]

A3303 is spare (as are a couple of other numbers) - but after it's detrunked it may well end up being downgraded further. It's a shame there's already a B3169....

Keeping it as an A-road would create a longer-distance strategic diversion route in the event of a problem affecting the upgraded road, or even the M5. It doesn't need to be primary, just classifying it as normal A-road should suffice.

[PeterA5145]

I would say that the A344 is an ex A road now, on purely practical grounds. You cant use it like you would any other 'A' road.

A40 Oxford Street?

A6 Market Street, Manchester.

Surely the difference is that the A40 and A6 still have lengthy "live" sections, whereas the A344 now has none.

[RichardA35]

.Surely the difference is that the A40 and A6 still have lengthy "live" sections, whereas the A344 now has none.

Well we know it is stopped up east of Byway 12 to the A303 so is "dead", defunct, an ex-A344 in this section.
West of Byway 12 to Airman's Corner it must be "live" to have a TRO imposed on it - however the effect of this is to make it "dead" to through/casual traffic and restrict its use to vehicles heading to the visitor centre or by permit upto the stones. A similar process to a TRO used to restrict traffic in pedestrianised streets in town centres.
Whether the "live" section still merits an A road classification? - probably not but that's a different question.

[Jim606]

The 2015 summer solstice marked the first year that the newly grassed line of the old A344 was finally opened-up for solstice attendees. As far as I am aware the A344's old northern boundary fence is still there for the time being and the grass (in the A344's old cutting running down to the A303) is still taking time to become established.

[Jim606]

I found these images from Vinci Construction showing the old A344 being ripped up and landscaped. According to the caption on the bottom right of the photos they date from 5th March 2014. The whole catalogue can be found online here: http://www.slideshare.net/assocpm/stone ... ntation-v4

[Berk]

Out of interest, what happened to the old pedestrian subway?? Was it filled in, and if so, how?? Then again, I would assume it's near the parking strip for the land train. Which I assumed was on a (much-reduced) part of the old car park.

[Jim606]

Out of interest, what happened to the old pedestrian subway?? Was it filled in, and if so, how?? Then again, I would assume it's near the parking strip for the land train. Which I assumed was on a (much-reduced) part of the old car park.

I seem to recall reading in 'Construction News' that the old pedestrian tunnel was back filled with spray foam concrete and the subway entrances then filled with earth, levelled and grass seeded.

There are some more photographs / info re; the A344 closure on the archaeologist Mike Pitts' website for anyone who is interested:

https://mikepitts.wordpress.com/2013/06 ... -the-a344/ &

https://mikepitts.wordpress.com/2013/08 ... -car-park/

Also, I think that (5th March) date on the Vinci Construction images is when the online brochure was published not when the works to rip up the road actually took place. As far as I am aware the road was taken-up in the autumn of 2013. A small part of the old car park was retained / resurfaced as a turning circle for the Land Rover hauled 'land-trains' which didn't prove to be that successful. One of the problems was that the turning circle was too small for them to turn with ease. The land-trains have subsequently been replaced with small 'shopper-hopper' type buses.

[Jim606]

The archaeologist Mike Pitts has posted some more recent photos of the grassed over A344 in his October 2015 website blog. It is interesting to see how much has changed.

https://mikepitts.wordpress.com/2015/10/

[Owain]

I drove past it yesterday. As you come off the crest of the hill at the end of A303 d/c, you can still see the line of the road etched into the landscape. If they take away the fences that still show where each side of the road was, as I'd imagine they eventually will, the road will become much less visible.

[Richardf]

Yes the fences still show the line of the road, without them the road alignment will soon disappear. Nature is pretty good at reclaiming it's own.

[SteveA30]

It is unusual to see a 'lifted' road, instead of a lifted railway. Although there are many short stubs, this is a lengthy stretch of old former road.

[Was92now625]

If the A303 gets diverted along the A358 between Horton Cross and the M5, the section of A303 west of Horton Cross will presumably need a new number.

Or just swap them over.

Including the part of A358 NW of Taunton ??

[A303Paul]

If the A303 gets diverted along the A358 between Horton Cross and the M5, the section of A303 west of Horton Cross will presumably need a new number.

Or just swap them over.

Including the part of A358 NW of Taunton ??

And south of Ilminster?

I think there are several possibilites:

1) Rename the A303 west of Ilminster as A3037 and the bit of A358 between Ilminster and Taunton as A303. There is no valid cost of the signpost bleat argument as virtually no signposts would need changing to do this. All the signs around Taunton with Chard A358 would still be accurate as would those on the A303 stating Taunton (A358) Honiton (A30) etc. Even the motorway wouldn't need extra new signs as the new freeflow junction would have new signs anyway and the old junnction would be correct to still state A358 because it still would be. The renumbered bit of A358 would get new signs anyway as would the A303 west of Ilminster (because the green primary route signs would have to be swapped for black and white non primary signs)

2) Do nothing and leave it as A358. Absurd but the sort of thing that happens in the UK.

3) Be more radical and abolish the A303 with it becoming the A30 between the M3 and the M5. The old A30 would become the A3088 between Yeovil and the A36 at Wilton. Between Salisbury and Airmans corner would be an extension of the A343 and Airmans Corner to the A303/A34 junction, the A344. East of yeovil to the A303 junction Honiton the A30 would become the A3037, with the A303 east of Ilminster becoming the A3034. Honiton to Exeter would obviously become the A35.

[Jim606]

I believe as part of the original A344 closure brief, a pedestrian crossing was to have been constructed over the A303 at Stonehenge Bottom. This and the permissible path for walkers, cyclists and horse riders along the line of the closed A344 still hasn't happened. The original footpath still runs to the north of the old A344 as it always did, but hopefully during 2016 this will change and the A344 will become a fully fledged bridleway.

[Berk]

If the A303 gets diverted along the A358 between Horton Cross and the M5, the section of A303 west of Horton Cross will presumably need a new number.

Including the part of A358 NW of Taunton ??

And south of Ilminster?

I think there are several possibilites:

1) Rename the A303 west of Ilminster as A3037 and the bit of A358 between Ilminster and Taunton as A303. There is no valid cost of the signpost bleat argument as virtually no signposts would need changing to do this. All the signs around Taunton with Chard A358 would still be accurate as would those on the A303 stating Taunton (A358) Honiton (A30) etc. Even the motorway wouldn't need extra new signs as the new freeflow junction would have new signs anyway and the old junnction would be correct to still state A358 because it still would be. The renumbered bit of A358 would get new signs anyway as would the A303 west of Ilminster (because the green primary route signs would have to be swapped for black and white non primary signs)

...

3) Be more radical and abolish the A303 with it becoming the A30 between the M3 and the M5. The old A30 would become the A3088 between Yeovil and the A36 at Wilton. Between Salisbury and Airmans corner would be an extension of the A343 and Airmans Corner to the A303/A34 junction, the A344. East of yeovil to the A303 junction Honiton the A30 would become the A3037, with the A303 east of Ilminster becoming the A3034. Honiton to Exeter would obviously become the A35.

I think there are merits in both of these. The first is probably the lowest-cost option, and would be quick, and convenient to implement. And there is a sort of logic in making the A303 a through motorway link.

The second is probably the most logical solution, and is similar to moves/builds/renumberings elsewhere. If you look at a map of the GB road network, you'll probably see that the roads that were there 60 or 70 years ago are still there, they've just been bypassed by through/long-distance traffic. This would be the means by which the 'old A30' is finally laid to rest. It's not even as if there's any long-distance traffic on the old road to get 'confused' by it. I would say it probably is a string of 3, or 4 local A-roads, and is best suited at that.

The only difference I would make is, I would keep the 'new A30' running on from Ilminster down to Honiton. It does need some money spending on it, but it would be a self-contained stretch really. Just signpost Exeter traffic on to the motorway.

[Chris5156]

Rename the A303 west of Ilminster as A3037 and the bit of A358 between Ilminster and Taunton as A303. There is no valid cost of the signpost bleat argument as virtually no signposts would need changing to do this. All the signs around Taunton with Chard A358 would still be accurate as would those on the A303 stating Taunton (A358) Honiton (A30) etc. Even the motorway wouldn't need extra new signs as the new freeflow junction would have new signs anyway and the old junnction would be correct to still state A358 because it still would be. The renumbered bit of A358 would get new signs anyway as would the A303 west of Ilminster (because the green primary route signs would have to be swapped for black and white non primary signs)

A3037? Pah! Let's be ambitious. For the sake of renumbering a tiny B-road in Congresbury, you could give the old A303 between Ilminster and Upottery its original 1922 number back and call it B3169 again!

[Brock]

This discussion is a little baffling. The question originally posed by Richardf was "In theory at least this means the A344 number is now free for reuse. Any suggestions as to what it could be used for?" I suggested that it could perhaps be used for the Horton Cross-Upottery section of the current A303 if the A303 is diverted to Taunton. There then followed a number of alternative suggestions for renumbering the A303, none of which mentioned the number A344. What was wrong with my original suggestion?

[Berk]

Not so much anything wrong with it, although the A34x number is out of the 'micro-zone', being far apart from its neighbours. I would probably have kept A303 for the spur. It can either join both parts of A30 (my choice), or the stretch from Honiton to Exeter can be renumbered (A35??).