A417 Missing Link campaign!

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Chris Bertram
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by Chris Bertram »

A440 is vacant, how about A440(M)?
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Berk
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by Berk »

DavidBrown wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 15:21
roadtester wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 15:01would it be a good idea to have both an M42 and an A42(M) that have nothing to do with each other?
Well we've got this far in life with the A48(M) having nothing to do with the M48, same can be said for A57(M)/M57, A58(M)/M58, A66(M)/M66 etc. I think the bigger problem would be the A42(M) having nothing to do with the A42 irregardless of whether or not the M42 was extended over the current one or not. In that respect, A49(M) would make more sense as Peter hinted towards, if we were really pushing towards an Axx(M) number as the other Axx roads in the area (A38, A40, A48) would most likely have their (M) designations used elsewhere. In fact, controversial as it would be on here, I would have;
- A40 upgraded to expressway Ross to Monmouth and beyond - renumber it AND the M50 to A40(M). M50 number can then be used for something really grand like the Birmingham orbital!
- Current A40 between Ross and Gloucester renumbered to A49.
- A417/A419 expressway to be A49(M)
Sounds good to me.
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ChrisH
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by ChrisH »

If we're to change the number then a road of this length and strategic importance deserves a proper Motorway designation. M41 would be a good bet and has been vacant for nearly 20 years now.
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by lotrjw »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:46 Surely the simplest solution is renumber the whole of this M4/M5 link as an extension of the A346 which needlessly terminates at M4/J15 - that way:
  • A417 doesn't parallel itself north of and through Cirencester, nor the N/S and E/W branches cross without a junction
  • A419 terminates neatly on the A346
Actually, taking this a step further, renumber the A338 (south of Burbage) as the A346 and you have a continuous number from the M5 through to the A303 (and onwards to Salisbury) and Bournemouth - although I accept that upgrading this to HQDC might be tricky, as it passes through two Areas of Outstanding Natural Beauty
I like that idea, we could have M346 for the Swindon to Gloucester bit too, or A346(M) if it becomes an expressway. The A417 going through Gloucester and beyond could become a part of the A346 too!

I wouldnt worry about some bits not being dualled right now, a single route number is the important bit, except the Birdlip bit of course thats very important to dual of course!

The M4 junction should be fully grade separated too, get rid of the roundabout and extend the dual carriageway up the hill to just past Chiseldon.
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by Richardf »

85CF380 wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:26
Richardf wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2019 17:03 Always thought A46 was a good number for this road. Could be swapped with the A419 or the current A46 given a different number if this causes problems.
That's bonkers. The A46 runs NE to SW.
The Swindon - M5 road does need re-numbering. Giving new drivers a brief route description to Swindon went 'M1,M42,M5 then that A417/419 or is it A419/417 ? ....emmm, Swindon. It 'll be signed from the M5'. (Yes that way was quicker than A43/A34/A420).
Why bonkers? Both run from the M4 to Cheltenham and if I was going between the two I know which road I'd prefer! The current A46 is quite poor along this stretch for a F99 road. The Swindon - Gloucester route deserves a 2 digit number to reflect it's importance. It's not a radical change in direction really.
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by Richardf »

If we are talking renumbering, one option would be to lose the A346 and reroute the A338 to Swindon. Then maybe extend the A338 along the A417/9 to Gloucester. Be a bit out of zone (no different to the A361) but would result in a single number from Bournemouth to Gloucester, albeit one of vastly varying quality!

Still think the A417/9 should be a 2 digit road though!
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by lotrjw »

Richardf wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 16:40 If we are talking renumbering, one option would be to lose the A346 and reroute the A338 to Swindon. Then maybe extend the A338 along the A417/9 to Gloucester. Be a bit out of zone (no different to the A361) but would result in a single number from Bournemouth to Gloucester, albeit one of vastly varying quality!

Still think the A417/9 should be a 2 digit road though!
Neither the A346 or the A338 would be out of zone if they started in the 3 zone and went to the 4 zone like that, either would do nicely for a continual route from Bournemouth to Gloucester.
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by Micro The Maniac »

Moving further into fantasy territory...

The A35 multiplexes with the A338 in Bournemouth... so how about renumbering the A338, A346, A417/9 as A35.

The residual A35 can be a western extension of A33 from Southampton...
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by SouthWest Philip »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 21:03 Moving further into fantasy territory...

The A35 multiplexes with the A338 in Bournemouth... so how about renumbering the A338, A346, A417/9 as A35.

The residual A35 can be a western extension of A33 from Southampton...
If you wanted a two digit number from the 3-series, stealing the A32 and renumbering the existing one would be your best bet...
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by Patrick Harper »

ChrisH wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 19:04 If we're to change the number then a road of this length and strategic importance deserves a proper Motorway designation. M41 would be a good bet and has been vacant for nearly 20 years now.
The 'missing link' could probably be made a motorway up to the Zoons Court Roundabout, becoming an auxillary of the M5. The Cirencester Bypass would probably make the cut in its current form as well (both as ALR smart motorways) but the rest of the A417/A419 down to the M4 would need LARs and reconfigs of side-turnings and such. I wouldn't expect a classification more imaginative than A417(M) at this stage.
Last edited by Patrick Harper on Tue Apr 30, 2019 08:39, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by lotrjw »

Skye wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 13:00
ChrisH wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 19:04 If we're to change the number then a road of this length and strategic importance deserves a proper Motorway designation. M41 would be a good bet and has been vacant for nearly 20 years now.
The 'missing link' could probably be made a motorway up to the Zoons Court Roundabout, becoming an auxillary of the M5. The Cirencester Bypass would probably make the cut in its current form as well (both as ALR smart motorways) but the rest of the A417 down to the M4 would need LARs and reconfigs of side-turnings and such. I wouldn't expect a classification more imaginative than A417(M) at this stage.
If it becomes a motorway then A41(M) or M41 could be used.
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by Patrick Harper »

lotrjw wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 13:04
Skye wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 13:00
ChrisH wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2019 19:04 If we're to change the number then a road of this length and strategic importance deserves a proper Motorway designation. M41 would be a good bet and has been vacant for nearly 20 years now.
The 'missing link' could probably be made a motorway up to the Zoons Court Roundabout, becoming an auxillary of the M5. The Cirencester Bypass would probably make the cut in its current form as well (both as ALR smart motorways) but the rest of the A417 down to the M4 would need LARs and reconfigs of side-turnings and such. I wouldn't expect a classification more imaginative than A417(M) at this stage.
If it becomes a motorway then A41(M) or M41 could be used.
A41(M) would be ludicrous given that the real A41 is 50+ miles away. Common practise suggests that Mx numbers are only applied to completed 'long-distance' routes and not piecemeal bypasses as per the A1(M), A329(M) etc.
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by roadtester »

Skye wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 13:09
lotrjw wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 13:04
Skye wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 13:00 The 'missing link' could probably be made a motorway up to the Zoons Court Roundabout, becoming an auxillary of the M5. The Cirencester Bypass would probably make the cut in its current form as well (both as ALR smart motorways) but the rest of the A417 down to the M4 would need LARs and reconfigs of side-turnings and such. I wouldn't expect a classification more imaginative than A417(M) at this stage.
If it becomes a motorway then A41(M) or M41 could be used.
A41(M) would be ludicrous given that the real A41 is 50+ miles away. Common practise suggests that Mx numbers are only applied to completed 'long-distance' routes and not piecemeal bypasses as per the A1(M), A329(M) etc.
Yes - unless I'm missing something, AFAIK nobody has suggested that AX(M)s can suddenly have a new life independent from the corresponding AX just because we now have the notion of expressways.

That's why A42(M) would only work if the existing A42 were extinguished/incorporated into the M42.
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by Patrick Harper »

Incidentally - if Option 30 is chosen we could have a new single-carriageway motorway to the east of the old road. :wink:
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by M4 Cardiff »

TBPH I don't think it needs a blue line, just to be a HQDC with a single number. I would suggest to pick either the A417 or A419 and to simply renumber the extra part with a trailing 0 or 1 to make easy patching of signs.

Therefore, if the through route were to be numbered A419, the existing A419 from Cirencester to Stroud could become A4190 and the A417 would be truncated at Cirencester.
If done the other way, the existing A417 from Cirencester to Wantage could become A4170, with the A419 only existing from Stroud to Cirencester.
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by Berk »

M4 Cardiff wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 18:30TBPH I don't think it needs a blue line, just to be a HQDC with a single number. I would suggest to pick either the A417 or A419 and to simply renumber the extra part with a trailing 0 or 1 to make easy patching of signs.

Therefore, if the through route were to be numbered A419, the existing A419 from Cirencester to Stroud could become A4190 and the A417 would be truncated at Cirencester.
If done the other way, the existing A417 from Cirencester to Wantage could become A4170, with the A419 only existing from Stroud to Cirencester.
This option makes the most sense. :thumbsup:
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by Peter350 »

Out of those two, A417 would be better for Swindon - Gloucester as it currently carries on further north to Leominster.
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by Patrick Harper »

M4 Cardiff wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 18:30 TBPH I don't think it needs a blue line,
The smart motorway tech would make it safer though.
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by lotrjw »

M4 Cardiff wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 18:30 TBPH I don't think it needs a blue line, just to be a HQDC with a single number. I would suggest to pick either the A417 or A419 and to simply renumber the extra part with a trailing 0 or 1 to make easy patching of signs.

Therefore, if the through route were to be numbered A419, the existing A419 from Cirencester to Stroud could become A4190 and the A417 would be truncated at Cirencester.
If done the other way, the existing A417 from Cirencester to Wantage could become A4170, with the A419 only existing from Stroud to Cirencester.
All HQDCs should be blue lines thats partly whats wrong with the road system in this country! If they were all blue lines it would make the UK's major road network look so much more accessible.
I know that it wouldnt necessarily improve the capacity, but it would allow people to realise that there are many more good quality routes in this country which might take some pressure off the current skeleton of a motorway network we have.
This is essentially what the expressway program is trying to achieve.
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Re: A417 Missing Link campaign!

Post by Chris Bertram »

roadtester wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 13:21
Skye wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 13:09
lotrjw wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 13:04

If it becomes a motorway then A41(M) or M41 could be used.
A41(M) would be ludicrous given that the real A41 is 50+ miles away. Common practise suggests that Mx numbers are only applied to completed 'long-distance' routes and not piecemeal bypasses as per the A1(M), A329(M) etc.
Yes - unless I'm missing something, AFAIK nobody has suggested that AX(M)s can suddenly have a new life independent from the corresponding AX just because we now have the notion of expressways.

That's why A42(M) would only work if the existing A42 were extinguished/incorporated into the M42.
(Cough) A601(M) (cough)
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