A417 Missing Link campaign!

[Truvelo]

Consultation started today in fact. Both of the route options in the consultation involve demolition of the Air Balloon pub, and the tunnel options have been omitted entirely. Looking at the options which made it to the previous stage, the tunnel options had the same economic value rating as the looping Option 12 but Option 12 was sent to consultation over any of them. It says something that a tunnel was under consideration right up to that stage.

https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... sing-link/

Option 30 gets my vote. I don't like the loop in option 12.

[Bryn666]

30 is a much sweeter alignment. The other one screams 50 limit and departures from standard.

[Richardf]

30 looks the best to me. It runs further away from the current road which some might not like, but has the advantage of a less extreme curve and only has one junction compared to the other option's 3. I suspect though something will be found wrong with it and the other option will be the one built!

[jackal]

The exhibition boards state Option 12 is 40-50mph while option 30 is NSL. As option 30 has much better BCR and the costs are essentially the same it seems a fairly simple choice.

The plans in the TAR show a little more detail:

The junction plan for option 30 is quite interesting:

The current proposal for Option 30
allows for a single junction at Shab Hill to serve the local road network, with the
Air Balloon and Cowley roundabouts removed. If a junction (such as a left-in / left
out arrangement) were added at Cowley, a length of approximately 1.3km of the
existing A417 between the Stockwell and Birdlip junctions could be removed.
This will be reviewed further in future stages.

[Truvelo]

I wonder if there's some requirement to have two options even though it's a foregone conclusion?

[jackal]

No actual requirement but I think they've seen from the A358 scheme (where they had to rerun the consultation) that a single option approach can backfire badly.

[A320Driver]

Option 30 looks great on paper, but having watched the fly-through video, it looks like a large Tywford-esque cutting is proposed just south of Birdlip. I wonder if this could be converted to a land-bridge?

It also seems a bit daft to build a new link road to the A417 when there is a local road just to the north of the proposed line anyway?

[SouthWest Philip]

Option 12 arguably serves the A436 better insofar as it involves less of a diversion for what is, in effect, the Cheltenham bypass and will remain an important route from Gloucester to Oxford.

I wonder whether it would be possible to create west facing slips only at the Air Balloon. It looks like it could be possible to create the eastbound off-slip just by using the existing carriageway up to the roundabout? The westbound on slip would require a tight loop, but it might be possible? There would actually then by no need for any other intermediate junctions provided you leave a continuous local road network intact and provide for the east-facing movements with a junction at the current Cowley roundabout. Certainly no need for the two closely spaced intermediate junctions shown in option 12.

If option 30 is chosen, which I don't think is a foregone conclusion given the cutting, it would be good if the link road could also head east to meet the A436. Such a link would probably need to be S2+1 due to the gradient. (Or avoid having to build a link road by providing west facing movements at the Air Balloon as suggested above.)

[jackal]

Option 30 looks great on paper, but having watched the fly-through video, it looks like a large Tywford-esque cutting is proposed just south of Birdlip. I wonder if this could be converted to a land-bridge?

A land bridge is essentially just a bridge with soil and plants on it. So no, you cannot practicably cover an entire major cutting with one.

[vlad]

Have I missed something or isn't the A436 going to have a junction with the new A417? Is the idea for traffic to use the new GSJ further south or is something else on the cards?

[wrinkly]

Option 30 looks great on paper, but having watched the fly-through video, it looks like a large Tywford-esque cutting is proposed just south of Birdlip. I wonder if this could be converted to a land-bridge?

A land bridge is essentially just a bridge with soil and plants on it. So no, you cannot practicably cover an entire major cutting with one.

Well, you could if you thought it was important enough. You would be converting the cutting to a cut-and-cover tunnel.

However, given that the BCR is already desperately low at 1.04 (and < 1 for all the options except 30), they will be trying to reduce the cost, not increase it.

[jackal]

^ Hence it is not practicable

Have I missed something or isn't the A436 going to have a junction with the new A417? Is the idea for traffic to use the new GSJ further south or is something else on the cards?

It uses the new GSJ further south.

[Piatkow]

Have I missed something or isn't the A436 going to have a junction with the new A417? Is the idea for traffic to use the new GSJ further south or is something else on the cards?

I haven't looked deeply into it but from the maps above I assume that the old 417 isn't going to be severed at the Air Balloon as the 436 needs to follow that alignment to reach the 417

[dcrc2]

I wonder whether it would be possible to create west facing slips only at the Air Balloon. It looks like it could be possible to create the eastbound off-slip just by using the existing carriageway up to the roundabout?

Indeed, if they put the eastbound off-slip at Air Balloon then not only would that route be shorter, it would also avoid the need for a bridge at Barrow Wake. I'm guessing the problem is that the old road has to be retained for access to properties, and they don't think it can safely do double-duty as an off-slip.

[jackal]

I assume the problem is that the old road is at a higher elevation than the new one and there is no cost effective way to get the slip road up there.

[A9NWIL]

No actual requirement but I think they've seen from the A358 scheme (where they had to rerun the consultation) that a single option approach can backfire badly.

It reminds me of Yes Minister/Prime Minister, offer two options, one bad one good and then it looks like there is a choice even though in reality there is only one option.

I would have deliberately made the other option to option 30 much worse on purpose to get people to choose option 30 though, but option 30 is clearly the best of the two.

[A9NWIL]

Option 30 looks great on paper, but having watched the fly-through video, it looks like a large Tywford-esque cutting is proposed just south of Birdlip. I wonder if this could be converted to a land-bridge?

It also seems a bit daft to build a new link road to the A417 when there is a local road just to the north of the proposed line anyway?

Yes one junction at the current Cowley roundabout location would be adequate, that would negate the need to build the link road.

[A9NWIL]

Option 30 looks great on paper, but having watched the fly-through video, it looks like a large Tywford-esque cutting is proposed just south of Birdlip. I wonder if this could be converted to a land-bridge?

A land bridge is essentially just a bridge with soil and plants on it. So no, you cannot practicably cover an entire major cutting with one.

Well, you could if you thought it was important enough. You would be converting the cutting to a cut-and-cover tunnel.

However, given that the BCR is already desperately low at 1.04 (and < 1 for all the options except 30), they will be trying to reduce the cost, not increase it.

Could be something that the local councils could look at themselves in the future? Or if done the land rights could be sold or rented for the above bridge section.

[A9NWIL]

I wonder whether it would be possible to create west facing slips only at the Air Balloon. It looks like it could be possible to create the eastbound off-slip just by using the existing carriageway up to the roundabout?

Indeed, if they put the eastbound off-slip at Air Balloon then not only would that route be shorter, it would also avoid the need for a bridge at Barrow Wake. I'm guessing the problem is that the old road has to be retained for access to properties, and they don't think it can safely do double-duty as an off-slip.

There could be a diamond junction put in at the current Air Balloon location with the A436 crossing the new A417 and meeting the the old A417.
If there is the need then there could be dumbbell roundabouts put in there.

Couple that with no link road and junction half way through, along with a dumbbell roundabout junction at the Cowley end and you have an effective full access local access road! That would be enough to make the new section a special road or even motorway status, but they wont do that of course! Until the whole thing becomes a full expressway that is!

[wrinkly]

Could be something that the local councils could look at themselves in the future? Or if done the land rights could be sold or rented for the above bridge section.

Sheep don't generate much income. Ask any hill farmer.