Not ideal but I can't say I've ever seen a decker with a height plate that isn't both metric and imperial.
Looking at that bridge, there doesn't seem to be anything that would make you think it's bigger than it is.
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Not ideal but I can't say I've ever seen a decker with a height plate that isn't both metric and imperial.
A reminder that before the current situation the rate of vehicles striking Network Rail bridges over roads (which is most of the low bridges, but not all) was about 4-5 a day (and even that's down on a decade ago)Nathan_A_RF wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 18:44 Also in the news, another bus has crashed into a bridge today, this time in Bristol. Luckily no one on board this one.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-54109763
doebag wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 08:49 While I would agree that any professional driver should be driving to the highest standards, they, as well as Joe/Jo Bloggs car driver, are all subject to the same human factors in their driving.We don't know all the circumstances of the bridge strike, but as in the Glasgow dustbin lorry incident, there may be more to it. There was fatal accident on the A47 where a bus collided with an HGV near Guyhirn a few years ago. Totally straight road, and initially you may have wanted to blame the HGV that was pulling out onto the road,but there seems to have been previous evidence of the bus driver having micro sleeps.
If all professional drivers were perfect there would be no need for Tachographs or height warnings in cabs, lorries would not strike vehicles on hard shoulders or tip over on roundabouts.So while in the bridge strike it may well be the drivers fault, it has to be asked why it was his fault.
2) may not be practical - many double-deckers seem to have "bull bars" fitted alongside their upper front window to protect the glass and bodywork from overhanging vegetation - at that height it's the buses and trucks that keep the vegetation trimmed, not the highway authority or landowner - given the frequency of such vegetation strikes, a collision avoidance system may make it difficult to make progress on some routes.KeithW wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 09:16doebag wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 08:49 While I would agree that any professional driver should be driving to the highest standards, they, as well as Joe/Jo Bloggs car driver, are all subject to the same human factors in their driving.We don't know all the circumstances of the bridge strike, but as in the Glasgow dustbin lorry incident, there may be more to it. There was fatal accident on the A47 where a bus collided with an HGV near Guyhirn a few years ago. Totally straight road, and initially you may have wanted to blame the HGV that was pulling out onto the road,but there seems to have been previous evidence of the bus driver having micro sleeps.
If all professional drivers were perfect there would be no need for Tachographs or height warnings in cabs, lorries would not strike vehicles on hard shoulders or tip over on roundabouts.So while in the bridge strike it may well be the drivers fault, it has to be asked why it was his fault.
The real question is can we do anything about it ?
The answer is yes.
1) There are satnavs for trucks which allow you to enter height width length and weight which will warn the driver in advance if he is on route leading to such a restriction. They are very popular in the USA with RV drivers, cost is about £350.
2) Another option which I brought up earlier is a variation on the colllision avoidance system being fitted to cars. A sensor mounted on the roof looks straight ahead and if it sees an obstruction.
This does not mean we should rush out and retrofit all buses with this type of system but it could be made mandatory for new vehicles.
I'm not sure what the system is but I believe there's already something in place on some buses. The 309/10/11 buses in Newcastle travelling along the Coast Road always warn about a low bridge ahead near Jesmond Dene, I assume their picking up - https://goo.gl/maps/XDWAnUJNg9oZLCQA6 underneath but there's definitely low height warnings.KeithW wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 09:16 The real question is can we do anything about it ?
The answer is yes.
1) There are satnavs for trucks which allow you to enter height width length and weight which will warn the driver in advance if he is on route leading to such a restriction. They are very popular in the USA with RV drivers, cost is about £350.
2) Another option which I brought up earlier is a variation on the colllision avoidance system being fitted to cars. A sensor mounted on the roof looks straight ahead and if it sees an obstruction.
This does not mean we should rush out and retrofit all buses with this type of system but it could be made mandatory for new vehicles.
Was the bus-driver British born and raised? If not, but was Aussie, South African , Polish etc the term "12 ft" might not have rung alarm bells whereas "3.6 m" would have.Nathan_A_RF wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 13:56 Again it's useful to take a look at the signage involved in this accident. Even if the bus driver was wrong to choose this route (there were no road closures on the alternative route to the south unless an accident occurred), or if they were supplied with a bus not suitable for the route, you'd suspect that warning signs would alert them to the bridge height way before the actual structure. Yet on this occasion there are only 2 warning signs before the bridge, neither in metric units and one on the bridge itself not giving a driver much chance to stop as it is on a bend and almost obscured by foliage. These signs are in no way up to current practices in signing arch bridges as per TSM Chapter 4. Highways Agencies and Network Rail need to step up their signage schemes to comply with current safer regulations regardless of age of existing signs (with none of this LOW BRIDGE crap in black and yellow letters plastered over it I might add).
Many British-born drivers may only understand metric - but drivers originating from a metric country should have enough nous to realise they don't know what 12 ft means on a height restriction sign, especially when driving a tall vehicle.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 22:56Was the bus-driver British born and raised? If not, but was Aussie, South African , Polish etc the term "12 ft" might not have rung alarm bells whereas "3.6 m" would have.Nathan_A_RF wrote: ↑Thu Sep 10, 2020 13:56 Again it's useful to take a look at the signage involved in this accident. Even if the bus driver was wrong to choose this route (there were no road closures on the alternative route to the south unless an accident occurred), or if they were supplied with a bus not suitable for the route, you'd suspect that warning signs would alert them to the bridge height way before the actual structure. Yet on this occasion there are only 2 warning signs before the bridge, neither in metric units and one on the bridge itself not giving a driver much chance to stop as it is on a bend and almost obscured by foliage. These signs are in no way up to current practices in signing arch bridges as per TSM Chapter 4. Highways Agencies and Network Rail need to step up their signage schemes to comply with current safer regulations regardless of age of existing signs (with none of this LOW BRIDGE crap in black and yellow letters plastered over it I might add).
I dont believe that is a factor, anyone under the age of 60 will have been taught in metric units but a high percentage of them will still use imperial units every day. Ask people how tall and heavy they are and most will say some thing like 5ft 8" and 11 stone.Ruperts Trooper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 08:56 Many British-born drivers may only understand metric - but drivers originating from a metric country should have enough nous to realise they don't know what 12 ft means on a height restriction sign, especially when driving a tall vehicle.
There used to a big problem with the Railway Bridge here in Middlesbrough.jabbaboy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 21:45 I'm not sure what the system is but I believe there's already something in place on some buses. The 309/10/11 buses in Newcastle travelling along the Coast Road always warn about a low bridge ahead near Jesmond Dene, I assume their picking up - https://goo.gl/maps/XDWAnUJNg9oZLCQA6 underneath but there's definitely low height warnings.
Seeing as comparing feet to metres is a factor of more than 3, I doubt it.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 22:56
Was the bus-driver British born and raised? If not, but was Aussie, South African , Polish etc the term "12 ft" might not have rung alarm bells whereas "3.6 m" would have.
No one is seriously suggesting the driver thought the sign said 12 metres headroom, surely?doebag wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 09:36Seeing as comparing feet to metres is a factor of more than 3, I doubt it.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 22:56
Was the bus-driver British born and raised? If not, but was Aussie, South African , Polish etc the term "12 ft" might not have rung alarm bells whereas "3.6 m" would have.
If a person cannot distinguish between 13 feet and 13 metres, or 4 metres and 4 feet, they probably should not be allowed to walk without a guide let alone drive.
No-one is suggesting that a foreign-born driver would think that the sign meant 12m, but just that they might not have an instinctive feel for what 12ft is. Anyone brought up here will know that a reasonably tall adult male is about 6ft, so 12ft is double that, and a double decker bus will be more than 2 people tall.doebag wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 09:36Seeing as comparing feet to metres is a factor of more than 3, I doubt it.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Sat Sep 12, 2020 22:56
Was the bus-driver British born and raised? If not, but was Aussie, South African , Polish etc the term "12 ft" might not have rung alarm bells whereas "3.6 m" would have.
If a person cannot distinguish between 13 feet and 13 metres, or 4 metres and 4 feet, they probably should not be allowed to walk without a guide let alone drive.
No - some double-deckers are lower-roofed specifically to allow them under certain bridges to widen their route availability.
Its not just buses , this is a problem with all high vehicles and we already have signs displaying the max. height.
Because it worked, the height signs applied to ALL vehicles including those headed for Middlesbrough Dock which was also open at the time. Most HGV's headed for the area now use the overbridge from the A66.Nathan_A_RF wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 12:15 Why go through all the trouble of getting special steering wheels and new special signs specifically for buses when all that needs to be done is educate drivers and put up better height warning signage.
Even though I have lived in the UK for 40 years, eleven stones means little to me. I convert it first to pounds - ie 154 pounds and then to kilograms to get 70 kg. The reason - I was brought up in South Africa where nobody used stones - when I was young, people in South Africa used the American system and would have said "154 lbs" rather then "11 stone". Then in the early 1970's South Africa went metric and I got used to using kilograms rather than pounds. I settled in the UK in 1978 and decided that since the UK was in the process of going metric, there was no point in getting to grips with stones and pounds - things were going to change anyway. Now, when I have my weight taken at a clinic, the reading is always in kilograms and when the nurse is about to convert to stones and pounds for my benefit, I tell him or her not to worry as I use kilograms anyway. The last time I was at a clinic, I did bring my own bathroom scales to the clinic to calibrate it against the clinic's scales (I weigh myself every week as part of my diabetes monitoring regime).KeithW wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 09:10I dont believe that is a factor, anyone under the age of 60 will have been taught in metric units but a high percentage of them will still use imperial units every day. Ask people how tall and heavy they are and most will say some thing like 5ft 8" and 11 stone.Ruperts Trooper wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 08:56 Many British-born drivers may only understand metric - but drivers originating from a metric country should have enough nous to realise they don't know what 12 ft means on a height restriction sign, especially when driving a tall vehicle.
Take a look at the Highway Code and it still quotes stopping distances in both metric and imperial units. All you have to remember is 1 metre is about 3 ft 4" or even just 3 and a bit.