Another bridge strike

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KeithW
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by KeithW »

fras wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 17:40 What is needed is cameras to record the vehicles hitting the bridge, and the owner to then whalloped for the full cost of repairs and disruption to traffic.
Network Rail have a policy of pursuing haulage companies to recover the costs of damage, this one holds the record of most bridge strikes with 25 in 2019/2020

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.53075 ... authuser=0

The fact that there a number of distribution centres less than a mile away is probably not coincidental.
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Big Nick
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by Big Nick »

B1040 wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 11:35 https://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/c ... e-19881836

Coldham's Lane in Cambridge.
A car transporter!
No excuse on that one, the bridge is clearly signed on all 3 approaches to the roundabout and from both directions in Cherry Hinton. I wonder if the driver had just been to the car dealers by the airport and turned left from Norman Way forgetting the previous height signs.
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Vierwielen
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by Vierwielen »

KeithW wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 13:05
fras wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 17:40 What is needed is cameras to record the vehicles hitting the bridge, and the owner to then whalloped for the full cost of repairs and disruption to traffic.
Network Rail have a policy of pursuing haulage companies to recover the costs of damage, this one holds the record of most bridge strikes with 25 in 2019/2020

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.53075 ... authuser=0

The fact that there a number of distribution centres less than a mile away is probably not coincidental.
This looks to me like a case of different sets of bureaucrats playing silly b******s with budgets. Unless there is something, that I have missed, the road could be lowered by 0.5 metres. If we assume a 1:100 maximum slope, then we would need o allow 50 metres on either side for the ramp, In addition, we should allow 20 metres flat on either side to allow for long vehicles. This would result in 70 metres either side of the bridge being taken up with the "dip". A quick look at the map shows that there is about 300 metres on either side without any side roads, so, unless there is something funny about the site, there is ample land to make a "dip". In practice, the maximum gradient could be significantly steeper than 1:100, even on an A road.
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Bryn666
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by Bryn666 »

Vierwielen wrote: Mon Feb 22, 2021 21:49
KeithW wrote: Sun Feb 21, 2021 13:05
fras wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 17:40 What is needed is cameras to record the vehicles hitting the bridge, and the owner to then whalloped for the full cost of repairs and disruption to traffic.
Network Rail have a policy of pursuing haulage companies to recover the costs of damage, this one holds the record of most bridge strikes with 25 in 2019/2020

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.53075 ... authuser=0

The fact that there a number of distribution centres less than a mile away is probably not coincidental.
This looks to me like a case of different sets of bureaucrats playing silly b******s with budgets. Unless there is something, that I have missed, the road could be lowered by 0.5 metres. If we assume a 1:100 maximum slope, then we would need o allow 50 metres on either side for the ramp, In addition, we should allow 20 metres flat on either side to allow for long vehicles. This would result in 70 metres either side of the bridge being taken up with the "dip". A quick look at the map shows that there is about 300 metres on either side without any side roads, so, unless there is something funny about the site, there is ample land to make a "dip". In practice, the maximum gradient could be significantly steeper than 1:100, even on an A road.
Drainage? You're just building a swimming pool as most roads lowered in this manner have become. Because the pronounced dip, you need to pump the water from the low point back to the nearest drainage run at datum level, which nearly never happens. So where so the water collect? In a big pond at the bottom:

https://www.google.com/search?q=flooded+railway+bridge
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The Deuce
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by The Deuce »

This time its the A41 near Bicester. Upcoming discussion on Radio2 Jeremy Vine this lunchtime
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https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxf ... e-56278928
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by Big L »

The Deuce wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:05 ....Upcoming discussion on Radio2 Jeremy Vine this lunchtime....
I can't listen to him.

I guess there was a lorry driver on blaming the bridge for being there and a bridge designer blaming the lorry driver, with absolutely equal weighting to each argument, followed by a load of listeners ringing in about how they once saw an idiot on the road.
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Re: Another bridge strike

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Big L wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 16:42I guess there was a lorry driver on blaming the bridge for being there and a bridge designer blaming the lorry driver, with absolutely equal weighting to each argument, followed by a load of listeners ringing in about how they once saw an idiot on the road.
I wonder who they got on to argue in favour of lorries driving in to bridges :scratchchin:
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M4 Cardiff
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by M4 Cardiff »

The Deuce wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:05 This time its the A41 near Bicester. Upcoming discussion on Radio2 Jeremy Vine this lunchtime
Image
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxf ... e-56278928
Gotta love that its a B&Q lorry with 'you can do it' on the side. :laugh: :laugh:

Also, it's not like that section of the A41 is not clearly signed from miles away that there is a low bridge...
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Conekicker
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by Conekicker »

Big L wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 16:42
The Deuce wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:05 ....Upcoming discussion on Radio2 Jeremy Vine this lunchtime....
I can't listen to him.

I guess there was a lorry driver on blaming the bridge for being there and a bridge designer blaming the lorry driver, with absolutely equal weighting to each argument, followed by a load of listeners ringing in about how they once saw an idiot on the road.
Quite.

His great "cause for concern" for today, which he expresses deep interest in. Which you will then never hear him speak about again.
The next days cause for concern will be something else, same fake deep interest, same lack of future mention.
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by B4444 »

This bridge once carried the GCR railway from London to Manchester. A railway with no level crossings and built to a higher standard than was required. Had it survived, we might never have needed HS2. I wonder if re-instating it was ever considered as an option?

HS2 is planned to cross the A41 a bit further to the west. The plan shows the road being bent to the right to run parallel to the new railway which will be in a cutting, before crossing at it right angles at Fleet Marston. So plenty of opportunity to crash through the safety barriers!
B1040
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by B1040 »

Looks like a close thing.
But if you're driving a lorry that big you need to know its height.
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by Chris Bertram »

B4444 wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 18:53 This bridge once carried the GCR railway from London to Manchester. A railway with no level crossings and built to a higher standard than was required. Had it survived, we might never have needed HS2. I wonder if re-instating it was ever considered as an option?

HS2 is planned to cross the A41 a bit further to the west. The plan shows the road being bent to the right to run parallel to the new railway which will be in a cutting, before crossing at it right angles at Fleet Marston. So plenty of opportunity to crash through the safety barriers!
The reason the GCR route was closed was because it tended to duplicate other services and had few destinations of any size all to itself, this being a function of it being a latecomer on the scene. Much of the trackbed south of Rugby is still available, but that doesn't get you very far. A heritage operation is running from Leicester to near Nottingham. But north of there there has been lots of filling-in of cuttings so it's not viable to envisage restoration of the complete route.
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by Phil »

B4444 wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 18:53 This bridge once carried the GCR railway from London to Manchester.


NO it didn't

That bridge carries the GWR London - Birmingham railway - very much still in use by Chiltern Railways and a which has had a lot of money thrown at it in the past couple of decades to reverse the 1960s / 70s / 80s rationalisation when the WCML was thought of as the only London - Birmingham route worth keeping.

The GCR bridge you mention was in fact here https://www.google.com/maps/@51.8570598 ... 384!8i8192 and was removed many years ago.

This bridge was not in fact built for the GCR mainline - it was a later add on by the GCR as part of a joint scheme with the GWR in which the former sought to avoid the high tolls and hold ups by stopping trains on the Metropolitan railway company owned section between Aylesbury and West Hampstead, while the latter wanted a faster route to Birmingham than via Reading and Oxford to compete with the LNWR
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by B4444 »

That's strange because I used to live next door (the clue is my username) to the GWR/GCR joint line from London to Birmingham via High Wycombe. The line over the low bridge is from Aylesbury and was a joint GC/Met line which now only goes as far as the Calvert waste site. The dismantled bridge is on the GC cut-off line built to join the GW line as relations with the Met went sour as you mentioned.
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by JammyDodge »

B4444 wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 18:53 This bridge once carried the GCR railway from London to Manchester. A railway with no level crossings and built to a higher standard than was required. Had it survived, we might never have needed HS2. I wonder if re-instating it was ever considered as an option?
I think that it was a consideration, but a lot of the route has also been lost to development and doesn't really serve the purpose that HS2 does, moving express trains off of the West Coast Mainline and Midland Mainline
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Vierwielen
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by Vierwielen »

M4 Cardiff wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 18:43
The Deuce wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 12:05 This time its the A41 near Bicester. Upcoming discussion on Radio2 Jeremy Vine this lunchtime
Image
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-oxf ... e-56278928
Gotta love that its a B&Q lorry with 'you can do it' on the side. :laugh: :laugh:

Also, it's not like that section of the A41 is not clearly signed from miles away that there is a low bridge...
No you can't! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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Stevie D
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by Stevie D »

B4444 wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 18:53This bridge once carried the GCR railway from London to Manchester. A railway with no level crossings and built to a higher standard than was required. Had it survived, we might never have needed HS2. I wonder if re-instating it was ever considered as an option?
Off-topic for this thread, but yes it was considered, and no it wasn't an option. Not a worthwhile one, anyway.

The point of HS2 is to provide a high-speed, high-capacity line that will provide a faster route than the current lines to Birmingham, Yorkshire and the North West. By having one high-speed line, it allows it to take long-distance traffic from not only the West Coast line, but also the Midland and East Coast lines, despite being a longer route, and so it creates additional capacity for local and freight trains on all three lines, and particularly around Birmingham, Leeds and Manchester.

While the GC was built to a good alignment and reasonably high speed for its day, the important words there are "its day" – very little of it would be suitable for the kind of speeds that we're looking at now on its original formation. And the most expensive bits of HS2 are the city centre sections, which the GC wouldn't do anything to address.
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by mikehindsonevans »

I agree with your points about the extra capacity which is sorely needed around the overloaded West Coast mainline.

Also, the construction of the GCR through cities like Nottingham gave early evidence of the costs involved in tunnelling, building viaducts and keeping the local NIMBY groups "of its day" quiet.

I personally am looking forward to NOT waiting at Crewe in a Friday night, because yet another northbound train has been cancelled as a result of no capacity on the bottom half of the WCML. :)

Today, March 6th, the old over-bridges of the GCR alignment at Finmere (Newton Purcell) are due to be removed for HS2 construction work.
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by FleetlinePhil »

B4444 wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 21:26 That's strange because I used to live next door (the clue is my username) to the GWR/GCR joint line from London to Birmingham via High Wycombe. The line over the low bridge is from Aylesbury and was a joint GC/Met line which now only goes as far as the Calvert waste site. The dismantled bridge is on the GC cut-off line built to join the GW line as relations with the Met went sour as you mentioned.
Sorry, but you appear to have the two bridges confused. The low bridge you refer to north of Aylesbury (in fact immediately north of Aylesbury Vale Parkway station) has an open parapet when seen on GSV. This is noticeably different from the one the B&Q wagon hit, which is indeed the one on the High Wycombe line as Phil pointed out upthread. Both are marked for the same height, incidentally.
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Re: Another bridge strike

Post by jervi »

Rocky Lane Haywards Heath / Burgess Hill had a few hits recently...
Friday 23rd - https://twitter.com/MidSussexPolice/sta ... 73/photo/1
Tuesday 27th - https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/1926093 ... ocky-lane/

There are three roads linking HH & BH together, Rocky Lane is the central one and is seeing more traffic since the Eastern one (B2112) is closed for a few months for a water main replacement, which explains why there have been two strikes a few days apart. Strikes here are quite common (a few a year it seems), almost all of them going southbound, and there is plenty of signage.
The issue is the arched bridge is on a corner, it really ought to have traffic lights here, and a pavement since there are popular public footpaths/bridleways on either side of the bridge.
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