Another bridge strike

[Bendo]

This clearly only says 12'-0".

Not ideal but I can't say I've ever seen a decker with a height plate that isn't both metric and imperial.

Looking at that bridge, there doesn't seem to be anything that would make you think it's bigger than it is.

[DB617]

Given the stakes and inevitable angry parent, injured children factor, the driver could be looking at due care and attention at the very least. And rightly so. You should absolutely be checking twice before driving into a low bridge situation like that in a double decker. In fact, I'm so surprised by the obviousness of this one that I'm shocked he tested negative for drink and drugs.

[Al__S]

Also in the news, another bus has crashed into a bridge today, this time in Bristol. Luckily no one on board this one.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-54109763

A reminder that before the current situation the rate of vehicles striking Network Rail bridges over roads (which is most of the low bridges, but not all) was about 4-5 a day (and even that's down on a decade ago)

[doebag]

While I would agree that any professional driver should be driving to the highest standards, they, as well as Joe/Jo Bloggs car driver, are all subject to the same human factors in their driving.We don't know all the circumstances of the bridge strike, but as in the Glasgow dustbin lorry incident, there may be more to it. There was fatal accident on the A47 where a bus collided with an HGV near Guyhirn a few years ago. Totally straight road, and initially you may have wanted to blame the HGV that was pulling out onto the road,but there seems to have been previous evidence of the bus driver having micro sleeps.

If all professional drivers were perfect there would be no need for Tachographs or height warnings in cabs, lorries would not strike vehicles on hard shoulders or tip over on roundabouts.So while in the bridge strike it may well be the drivers fault, it has to be asked why it was his fault.

[KeithW]

While I would agree that any professional driver should be driving to the highest standards, they, as well as Joe/Jo Bloggs car driver, are all subject to the same human factors in their driving.We don't know all the circumstances of the bridge strike, but as in the Glasgow dustbin lorry incident, there may be more to it. There was fatal accident on the A47 where a bus collided with an HGV near Guyhirn a few years ago. Totally straight road, and initially you may have wanted to blame the HGV that was pulling out onto the road,but there seems to have been previous evidence of the bus driver having micro sleeps.

If all professional drivers were perfect there would be no need for Tachographs or height warnings in cabs, lorries would not strike vehicles on hard shoulders or tip over on roundabouts.So while in the bridge strike it may well be the drivers fault, it has to be asked why it was his fault.

The real question is can we do anything about it ?

The answer is yes.

1) There are satnavs for trucks which allow you to enter height width length and weight which will warn the driver in advance if he is on route leading to such a restriction. They are very popular in the USA with RV drivers, cost is about £350.

2) Another option which I brought up earlier is a variation on the colllision avoidance system being fitted to cars. A sensor mounted on the roof looks straight ahead and if it sees an obstruction.

This does not mean we should rush out and retrofit all buses with this type of system but it could be made mandatory for new vehicles.

[Ruperts Trooper]

While I would agree that any professional driver should be driving to the highest standards, they, as well as Joe/Jo Bloggs car driver, are all subject to the same human factors in their driving.We don't know all the circumstances of the bridge strike, but as in the Glasgow dustbin lorry incident, there may be more to it. There was fatal accident on the A47 where a bus collided with an HGV near Guyhirn a few years ago. Totally straight road, and initially you may have wanted to blame the HGV that was pulling out onto the road,but there seems to have been previous evidence of the bus driver having micro sleeps.

If all professional drivers were perfect there would be no need for Tachographs or height warnings in cabs, lorries would not strike vehicles on hard shoulders or tip over on roundabouts.So while in the bridge strike it may well be the drivers fault, it has to be asked why it was his fault.

The real question is can we do anything about it ?

The answer is yes.

1) There are satnavs for trucks which allow you to enter height width length and weight which will warn the driver in advance if he is on route leading to such a restriction. They are very popular in the USA with RV drivers, cost is about £350.

2) Another option which I brought up earlier is a variation on the colllision avoidance system being fitted to cars. A sensor mounted on the roof looks straight ahead and if it sees an obstruction.

This does not mean we should rush out and retrofit all buses with this type of system but it could be made mandatory for new vehicles.

2) may not be practical - many double-deckers seem to have "bull bars" fitted alongside their upper front window to protect the glass and bodywork from overhanging vegetation - at that height it's the buses and trucks that keep the vegetation trimmed, not the highway authority or landowner - given the frequency of such vegetation strikes, a collision avoidance system may make it difficult to make progress on some routes.

[jabbaboy]

The real question is can we do anything about it ?

The answer is yes.

1) There are satnavs for trucks which allow you to enter height width length and weight which will warn the driver in advance if he is on route leading to such a restriction. They are very popular in the USA with RV drivers, cost is about £350.

2) Another option which I brought up earlier is a variation on the colllision avoidance system being fitted to cars. A sensor mounted on the roof looks straight ahead and if it sees an obstruction.

This does not mean we should rush out and retrofit all buses with this type of system but it could be made mandatory for new vehicles.

I'm not sure what the system is but I believe there's already something in place on some buses. The 309/10/11 buses in Newcastle travelling along the Coast Road always warn about a low bridge ahead near Jesmond Dene, I assume their picking up - https://goo.gl/maps/XDWAnUJNg9oZLCQA6 underneath but there's definitely low height warnings.

[Vierwielen]

Again it's useful to take a look at the signage involved in this accident. Even if the bus driver was wrong to choose this route (there were no road closures on the alternative route to the south unless an accident occurred), or if they were supplied with a bus not suitable for the route, you'd suspect that warning signs would alert them to the bridge height way before the actual structure. Yet on this occasion there are only 2 warning signs before the bridge, neither in metric units and one on the bridge itself not giving a driver much chance to stop as it is on a bend and almost obscured by foliage. These signs are in no way up to current practices in signing arch bridges as per TSM Chapter 4. Highways Agencies and Network Rail need to step up their signage schemes to comply with current safer regulations regardless of age of existing signs (with none of this LOW BRIDGE crap in black and yellow letters plastered over it I might add).

Was the bus-driver British born and raised? If not, but was Aussie, South African , Polish etc the term "12 ft" might not have rung alarm bells whereas "3.6 m" would have.

[Ruperts Trooper]

Again it's useful to take a look at the signage involved in this accident. Even if the bus driver was wrong to choose this route (there were no road closures on the alternative route to the south unless an accident occurred), or if they were supplied with a bus not suitable for the route, you'd suspect that warning signs would alert them to the bridge height way before the actual structure. Yet on this occasion there are only 2 warning signs before the bridge, neither in metric units and one on the bridge itself not giving a driver much chance to stop as it is on a bend and almost obscured by foliage. These signs are in no way up to current practices in signing arch bridges as per TSM Chapter 4. Highways Agencies and Network Rail need to step up their signage schemes to comply with current safer regulations regardless of age of existing signs (with none of this LOW BRIDGE crap in black and yellow letters plastered over it I might add).

Was the bus-driver British born and raised? If not, but was Aussie, South African , Polish etc the term "12 ft" might not have rung alarm bells whereas "3.6 m" would have.

Many British-born drivers may only understand metric - but drivers originating from a metric country should have enough nous to realise they don't know what 12 ft means on a height restriction sign, especially when driving a tall vehicle.

[KeithW]

Many British-born drivers may only understand metric - but drivers originating from a metric country should have enough nous to realise they don't know what 12 ft means on a height restriction sign, especially when driving a tall vehicle.

I dont believe that is a factor, anyone under the age of 60 will have been taught in metric units but a high percentage of them will still use imperial units every day. Ask people how tall and heavy they are and most will say some thing like 5ft 8" and 11 stone.

Take a look at the Highway Code and it still quotes stopping distances in both metric and imperial units. All you have to remember is 1 metre is about 3 ft 4" or even just 3 and a bit.

[KeithW]

I'm not sure what the system is but I believe there's already something in place on some buses. The 309/10/11 buses in Newcastle travelling along the Coast Road always warn about a low bridge ahead near Jesmond Dene, I assume their picking up - https://goo.gl/maps/XDWAnUJNg9oZLCQA6 underneath but there's definitely low height warnings.

There used to a big problem with the Railway Bridge here in Middlesbrough.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/New ... -1.2337799
The major issue was that some double deck buses would fit under it but others would not. They tried all sorts of technical warning devices but the problem with them was too many false positives. The short term fix was very simple, those that would fit got a differently coloured steering wheel. Eventually they only ran single deck buses on this route.

The bridge now has a VERY large warning sign in addition to the mandatory sign but there are still occasional incidents with over height vehicles.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/ ... /#gallery0

[doebag]

Was the bus-driver British born and raised? If not, but was Aussie, South African , Polish etc the term "12 ft" might not have rung alarm bells whereas "3.6 m" would have.

Seeing as comparing feet to metres is a factor of more than 3, I doubt it.
If a person cannot distinguish between 13 feet and 13 metres, or 4 metres and 4 feet, they probably should not be allowed to walk without a guide let alone drive.

[Big L]

Was the bus-driver British born and raised? If not, but was Aussie, South African , Polish etc the term "12 ft" might not have rung alarm bells whereas "3.6 m" would have.

Seeing as comparing feet to metres is a factor of more than 3, I doubt it.
If a person cannot distinguish between 13 feet and 13 metres, or 4 metres and 4 feet, they probably should not be allowed to walk without a guide let alone drive.

No one is seriously suggesting the driver thought the sign said 12 metres headroom, surely?

[Stevie D]

Was the bus-driver British born and raised? If not, but was Aussie, South African , Polish etc the term "12 ft" might not have rung alarm bells whereas "3.6 m" would have.

Seeing as comparing feet to metres is a factor of more than 3, I doubt it.
If a person cannot distinguish between 13 feet and 13 metres, or 4 metres and 4 feet, they probably should not be allowed to walk without a guide let alone drive.

No-one is suggesting that a foreign-born driver would think that the sign meant 12m, but just that they might not have an instinctive feel for what 12ft is. Anyone brought up here will know that a reasonably tall adult male is about 6ft, so 12ft is double that, and a double decker bus will be more than 2 people tall.

[Big Nick]

Would it be practical to design and use a sign that says if a bridge is unsuitable for double deck buses?

[Ruperts Trooper]

Would it be practical to design and use a sign that says if a bridge is unsuitable for double deck buses?

No - some double-deckers are lower-roofed specifically to allow them under certain bridges to widen their route availability.

[Nathan_A_RF]

Why go through all the trouble of getting special steering wheels and new special signs specifically for buses when all that needs to be done is educate drivers and put up better height warning signage.

[KeithW]

Would it be practical to design and use a sign that says if a bridge is unsuitable for double deck buses?

Its not just buses , this is a problem with all high vehicles and we already have signs displaying the max. height.

[KeithW]

Why go through all the trouble of getting special steering wheels and new special signs specifically for buses when all that needs to be done is educate drivers and put up better height warning signage.

Because it worked, the height signs applied to ALL vehicles including those headed for Middlesbrough Dock which was also open at the time. Most HGV's headed for the area now use the overbridge from the A66.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.57868 ... 312!8i6656

This only opened later. The problem at the time was that some buses would fit under but not all, at least one accident happened when the driver was allocated a bus that wouldnt physically fit under the bridge ! The different coloured wheel was an immediate indication that the bus was suitable for the route. The difference was a matter of inches. Eventually the standard operating procedure became that ALL double deck buses had to come to a halt at the bridge and creep forward, that way damage and risk was minimised.

[Vierwielen]

Many British-born drivers may only understand metric - but drivers originating from a metric country should have enough nous to realise they don't know what 12 ft means on a height restriction sign, especially when driving a tall vehicle.

I dont believe that is a factor, anyone under the age of 60 will have been taught in metric units but a high percentage of them will still use imperial units every day. Ask people how tall and heavy they are and most will say some thing like 5ft 8" and 11 stone.

Take a look at the Highway Code and it still quotes stopping distances in both metric and imperial units. All you have to remember is 1 metre is about 3 ft 4" or even just 3 and a bit.

Even though I have lived in the UK for 40 years, eleven stones means little to me. I convert it first to pounds - ie 154 pounds and then to kilograms to get 70 kg. The reason - I was brought up in South Africa where nobody used stones - when I was young, people in South Africa used the American system and would have said "154 lbs" rather then "11 stone". Then in the early 1970's South Africa went metric and I got used to using kilograms rather than pounds. I settled in the UK in 1978 and decided that since the UK was in the process of going metric, there was no point in getting to grips with stones and pounds - things were going to change anyway. Now, when I have my weight taken at a clinic, the reading is always in kilograms and when the nurse is about to convert to stones and pounds for my benefit, I tell him or her not to worry as I use kilograms anyway. The last time I was at a clinic, I did bring my own bathroom scales to the clinic to calibrate it against the clinic's scales (I weigh myself every week as part of my diabetes monitoring regime).