A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7593
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by jackal »

The above scheme is listed in Road Investment Strategy documentation (p. 36) as
comprehensive upgrade to improve traffic conditions on the main link between the Port of Liverpool and the motorway network. This scheme was identified as a central element of the Liverpool Local Growth Deal.
This is obviously rather vague, but a post here suggests the budget is '£150m-250m', which is quite substantial. Possibilities include:

1. Improvements to the entrance of the Port itself. If we literally understand the improvements as being to Princess Way itself, that is only a very short section of road from the Port entrance to the Bridge Road roundabout. To spend that kind of money here, the plan would presumably be something like grade separating the Bridge Rd roundabout and further grade separation of the A565 junction. The current junction puts the A5036 into a roundabout under the A565. Port Access would be improved if the A5036 instead freeflowed into the Port, for instance, via a stackabout. This would, however, seem like overkill given how poor the rest of the connections from the motorway are, so this is unlikely to be what's planned.

2. Improvements to the entire A5036. On a broader reading of 'A5036 Princess Way - access to Port of Liverpool', the entire A5036 would be improved. There is a large number of at-grade junctions, and even if only the major junction are grade separated, with others LILOed, it's easy to see £150m-£250m being spent along the road. Even so, this would require quite a lot of demolition, so we might have doubts about whether that is really the plan.

3. Improvements to the A5036 and to Switch Island. Most tantalisingly of all for sabristi, the plan may be to improve the infamous M57/M58/A5036 Switch Island junction as well as the A5036. £150m-£250m would be sufficient to carry the A5036 over or under the junction as a continuation of the M57 or M58 mainline. Since much of the budget would be spent at Switch Island in this scenario, improvements to the A5036 would be smaller scale and involve less demolition.

Of these, it seems to me that no. 3 is most likely. Thoughts?

PS - There are two smaller schemes in the area presently under construction - see here and here. The first of these is part of the 'Pinch Point Programme', and like much of that programme, is likely to be demolished if the more ambitious plans recently announced go ahead...
User avatar
si404
Member
Posts: 10885
Joined: Sat May 31, 2003 13:25
Location: Amersham

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by si404 »

It is eventually planned to be 'Expressway', but that money wouldn't cover all the conversion (I do believe that Expressways can have the odd at-grade junction, though surely Switch Island would remove that - you'd have a few LILOs perhaps).
"“Peace, commerce and honest friendship with all nations" Thomas Jefferson
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7593
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by jackal »

Interesting that the one road that has the best chance of being grade separated at Switch Island (the modern day A5036) was just plonked into a roundabout under the original Maghull Interchange plan.
http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/inde ... change.jpg
http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/wiki/inde ... ange_2.jpg
User avatar
Hugo Nebula
Member
Posts: 536
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 19:04
Location: Zone 5

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by Hugo Nebula »

si404 wrote:(I do believe that Expressways can have the odd at-grade junction
Or even be S2 with roundabouts - Daresbury Expressway?
User avatar
vlad
Member
Posts: 2589
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 16:20
Location: Near the northern end of the A34

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by vlad »

Hugo Nebula wrote:
si404 wrote:(I do believe that Expressways can have the odd at-grade junction
Or even be S2 with roundabouts - Daresbury Expressway?
Is it an Expressway just because it's called one?

(I notice if you turn that image round there's a 60-limit sign - is there any specific reason why NSL won't do?)
"If you expect nothing from somebody you are never disappointed." - Sylvia Plath
User avatar
wrinkly
Member
Posts: 9017
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:17
Location: Leeds

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by wrinkly »

vlad wrote:Is it an Expressway just because it's called one?
Probably not in the sense the government is now using.
User avatar
PeterA5145
Member
Posts: 25347
Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2002 00:19
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
Contact:

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by PeterA5145 »

vlad wrote:(I notice if you turn that image round there's a 60-limit sign - is there any specific reason why NSL won't do?)
When the D2 sections of the Runcorn Expressway system were reduced from 70 to 60 some years ago this section was signed as 60 in the interest of consistency. A 60/NSL transition with no actual change in limit might prove confusing. Not too far away, the S4 section of the A556 between M6 J19 and Northwich is also signed as 60.
“The human race divides politically into those who want people to be controlled and those who have no such desire.” – Robert A. Heinlein
User avatar
poshbakerloo
Member
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2011 00:04
Location: Cheshire / South Manchester

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by poshbakerloo »

vlad wrote:
Hugo Nebula wrote:
si404 wrote:(I do believe that Expressways can have the odd at-grade junction
Or even be S2 with roundabouts - Daresbury Expressway?
Is it an Expressway just because it's called one?

(I notice if you turn that image round there's a 60-limit sign - is there any specific reason why NSL won't do?)
Isn't NSL 60mph on S2 anyway
User avatar
nowster
Treasurer
Posts: 14841
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 16:06
Location: Manchester

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by nowster »

poshbakerloo wrote:Isn't NSL 60mph on S2 anyway
Yes, but I wonder how many drivers know that.
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7593
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by jackal »

This scheme has been trundling along under the radar over the last couple of years and is finally due for consultation in the next few weeks. In the meantime I dug up what I believe is the 'latest' information (the June newsletter), including this plan:
A5036.PNG
Both options look like they would have at-grade junctions, and any improvements to Switch Island seem minimal.
fras
Member
Posts: 3600
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 18:34

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by fras »

Inevitably the cheapest option will be chosen and then considerably reduced in scope so as to be a complete waste of money by offering almost no improvement whatsoever. That is how we do things in this benighted land of ours.
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7593
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by jackal »

fras wrote:Inevitably the cheapest option will be chosen and then considerably reduced in scope so as to be a complete waste of money by offering almost no improvement whatsoever. That is how we do things in this benighted land of ours.
It does look like this particular scheme will be short of what it should be, but there is more ambition about current British roadbuilding than there has been for 20 years.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35889
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by Bryn666 »

If the offline route isn't going to be GSJed it isn't worth building. A short expressway would massively improve the viability of the Port of Liverpool.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
Owain
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 26298
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 17:02
Location: Leodis

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by Owain »

At a fraction of the cost, things could be dramatically improved if P&O actually told their passengers which dock they are supposed to head to in order to catch the Dublin ferry, and if some signs were put up to that effect.

I have ended up driving up and down the whole length of the Liverpool waterfront between the Isle of Man terminal near the Liver Building and the Gladstone Dock in Bootle (from which the Dublin ferry actually departs), not once but twice. On the first occasion, in the middle of the night, I teamed up with other travellers who were trying to find the right dock, and eventually succeeded in locating it together in convoy. On the second occasion, also in the middle of the night, I couldn't remember where I'd caught the ferry the previous time ( :facepalm: ), and ended up going through the whole sorry saga again, even asking a pair of policemen who gave me directions to the wrong place (and who drove their van at 60mph all along the 30mph Regent Road).

Now I just use Stenaline from Birkenhead. A much nicer boat, and a terminal that's a hell of a lot easier to find.
Former President & F99 Driver

Viva la Repubblica!
User avatar
roadtester
Member
Posts: 31506
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 18:05
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by roadtester »

I don't know the area at all well, but how much chance is there of an offline new build happening that goes directly through something called Rimrose Valley Country Park?

Surely that's just a straightforward red rag to any opposition?

Or is Rimrose Valley Country park not as nice as it sounds from its name or as green as it looks on the map?
User avatar
Hugo Nebula
Member
Posts: 536
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 19:04
Location: Zone 5

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by Hugo Nebula »

jackal wrote:This scheme has been trundling along under the radar over the last couple of years
Couple of years? Try four decades.

The 'offline' route was the second go at a Crosby by-pass, linking into the M57 between Switch Island and Ince Blundell (now a S2!). The first suggestion was a link through Netherton to Netherton Road/Dunnings Bridge Road (which you can still mostly see here). However, this suggestion seems to be a Dunnings Bridge Road by-pass!
User avatar
Hugo Nebula
Member
Posts: 536
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2004 19:04
Location: Zone 5

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by Hugo Nebula »

roadtester wrote:Or is Rimrose Valley Country park not as nice as it sounds from its name or as green as it looks on the map?
TBH, I haven't visited it myself, but IIRC it was a landfill until a decade or two ago.
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7593
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by jackal »

Hugo Nebula wrote:
roadtester wrote:Or is Rimrose Valley Country park not as nice as it sounds from its name or as green as it looks on the map?
TBH, I haven't visited it myself, but IIRC it was a landfill until a decade or two ago.
It's the usual story of irresponsible 90s development built on top of the line an important road needs to take, with the twist that the development is a country park :|
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35889
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by Bryn666 »

They're already mad about it - this was a year ago:

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/fig ... y-10601632

You basically would have to tunnel under it all... perhaps a Dublin Port Tunnel style system where HGVs can use it for free but everyone else pays would be the result there.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
wrinkly
Member
Posts: 9017
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:17
Location: Leeds

Re: A5036 Princess Way – access to Port of Liverpool

Post by wrinkly »

I've always suspected the offline route is only there to prove they've considered all possibilities.
Post Reply