A13 rural section getting 50 limit and Specs

[WHBM]

I see that the section of the A13 beyong London, from Dagenham out to the M25 (at least) is having installed 50 limit signs (currently greyed out) and Specs gantries.

50 mph limits in urban areas is one thing; where has this limit of a rural and modern HQDC with a current average speed of 65-70 mph come from ? It's a road of better quality than the all-lane running bits of the M25 (fully lit, good grass verges, etc).

[Truvelo]

I know the section between the A1306 and A1012 is getting Specs due to weaving issues but didn't realise it would go all the way to Dagenham. That is totally unnecessary

[Bryn666]

Is this HA or TfL?

Suspect that it is a ploy to prevent people avoiding Dartford willingly heading to Blackwall by increasing journey times.

[SouthWest Philip]

Aren't there major roadworks planned around the M25/A13 junction soon? Could it just be temporary speed limits related to that?

[wrinkly]

Aren't there major roadworks planned around the M25/A13 junction soon?

Yes.

[jackal]

Aren't there major roadworks planned around the M25/A13 junction soon?

Yes.

From that:

Under Highways Agency plans, the A13 through the junction will be widened to four lanes in each direction, and slip roads to and from the M25 will be improved.

Surely they mean the M25 will be widened to four lanes through the junction?!

[SouthWest Philip]

Surely they mean the M25 will be widened to four lanes through the junction?!

Scheme Plan

Four lanes each way on the A13 east of the M25, but only for a few hundered yards to the junction for Lakeside (the A126). Then D3 in the current pinch point under the railway bridge.

[Truvelo]

The press release I was looking at a few weeks ago suggested a permanent 50 limit around the M25 junction.

[jackal]

Surely they mean the M25 will be widened to four lanes through the junction?!

Scheme Plan

Four lanes each way on the A13 east of the M25, but only for a few hundered yards to the junction for Lakeside (the A126). Then D3 in the current pinch point under the railway bridge.

That's a whole lot more sensible than what the press release said.

[ROAD ROVER]

I'd seen the SPECS going up but had assumed the speed limit would remain the same. I've not noticed the new 50 signs. That's going to be torture, especially at night which is when I mostly drive it. As stated, a large & up to date road layout with a totally inappropriate speed limit set (if it proves to be permanent).

With the removal of the Dartford toll booths you would think that people would no longer have need or desire to head for the Blackwall tunnel so I'm not sure that explanation holds too much water.

A variable speed system would be preferable, at least that can take account of traffic flow & adjust accordingly.

[WHBM]

Any weaving issues are to the east of the M25, where traffic joining the eastbound A13 clashes with that from London exiting for Lakeside just a few hundred yards ahead, and the reciprocal issue on the westbound carriageway. There are no such issues west of the junction at all.

Likewise there is an issue for northbound traffic leaving the tunnel and exiting up to the A13 roundabout, which blocks back from the roundabout signal and clashes with both that joining from the A1306 and that which wants to turn left at the roundabout. A freeflow lane round to the left at the roundabout would overcome much of this by relieving the signal of left turners - of course, there is none in the proposed plans.

I didn't see the section east of the M25, only that well to the west with all the 50/Specs stuff going up.

I know the section between the A1306 and A1012 is getting Specs due to weaving issues but didn't realise it would go all the way to Dagenham.

The A1306 junction is at Dagenham.

I've JUST remembered I've got to pay the Dartford toll. I wonder what their non-compliance percentage rate is. So I've done so. It took me EIGHT MINUTES to pay £2.50, as one who my company would like to think is more web-savvy than many. Separate thread I think. It certainly squandered more of my time than most of the queuing I used to do for the tolls.

[c2R]

I've signed up for the auto top up dart payment so I never need think about it again....

[Truvelo]

Here's a way of completely eliminating the weaving between the M25 and A126. The only issue is the skew bridges immediately to the east of the M25 roundabout. These could be removed and replaced by conventional C/D lanes either side of the A13 but there would be still be weaving, but not on the A13 itself.

Although significantly more expensive, the addition of braiding alongside the A13 would be a far better prospect than adding a few extra lanes to the A13 whilst doing little to deal with the weaving. The 50mph limit and Specs cameras extend well outside the area affected by weaving as others have already mentioned. I just don't know why things can't be done properly rather than going for the cheapest nastiest option

[Bryn666]

No one wants to spend 50+ million quid on a single junction unless they really have to.

[Truvelo]

Why not? M1 J8 received similar treatment to my proposal and that worked wonders.

[Runwell]

Is this HA or TfL?

It's HA after Wennington (A1306). Wasn't aware there are apparently plans to converge it all the way to the current 50 SPECS at Goresbrook though? Any excuse for TFL to cut the speed limit.

There were some temporary 50 signs on the short stretch from Lakeside on-slip to the M25 some months ago, whilst they did some prep work for either the SPECS or the long term works (which start shortly). Then they disappeared and it was NSL again. Then I saw the SPECS go up about a month ago, and just thought they were enforcing the NSL.

Last I heard a few months ago, they were trialling the speed limit. Not sure if this related to the recent prep work, as a thick steel varioguard lined the edges of the road at Lakeside for a few weeks. However I suspected the HA would just impose the 50mph permanently anyway.

Yes there can be issues with weaving between the M25 and Lakeside both ways, due to the short distance as mentioned. There is also a queue in morning Rush Hour from the Grays turn to Lakeside London-bound. Surely this could be addressed by VMS gantries etc? Outside of peak times or festive Lakeside traffic, there are no issues with weaving at all. To have a 50 zone covering (maybe before?) Wennington to Grays is an absolute joke. There's a good couple of miles from Wennington to the M25. Perhaps adding a gantry one mile from the M25 eastbound would be a better compromise? It's just ludicrous.

[Truvelo]

Has the westbound lane drop at Lakeside always existed? Doing something about it may relieve some of the queuing during the morning rush. Would east facing slips help? For starters it would enable easier access to Lakeside from the east.

The layout I drawn earlier continues the three lanes through the junction with lane one peeling off for the M25. This or the east facing Lakeside slips would be far superior to an unnatural lane drop with a 33% drop in capacity.

[The God of Biscuits]

The gov.uk website's section on the Lower Thames Crossing is quite interesting with regard to this section of the A13.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... on-the-a13 contains some plans for possible future changes to the M25 & A13.

As well as the plans for the congestion relief scheme that's about to start, there's two further sets of plans; one is for if the new crossing is east of Dartford (or if no new crossing is built), and looks very similar (to my untrained eye) to the one sketched above. The other plan is for if another bridge is built at Dartford, and features some rather extravagant grade separation.

[Truvelo]

The first of the two layouts at the bottom of that link removes the weaving but forces all London-A126 traffic to use the M25 roundabout. This is basically a stripped down version of what I planned further up this page.

The next one is slightly better as it removes most of the eastbound weaving but doesn't do anything westbound. Traffic travelling between London and Dartford will now have to negotiate both roundabouts.

[Mizter T]

[...] Any excuse for TFL to cut the speed limit. [...]

You're aware that in 2011 TfL raised the speed limit on the A13 from 40 to 50, no?