M181

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jervi
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Re: M181

Post by jervi »

I might head there this weekend or next week to take a look myself. It does make sense to make it the A1077(M), except that is a right mouthful.
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Chris Bertram
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Re: M181

Post by Chris Bertram »

Sounds like Pathetic Motorways is going to need an update soon.
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XC70
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Re: M181

Post by XC70 »

I came that way at 5pm and the signs were not there.

It doesn't make any sense to me. As I came north on the M181 to the new roundabout this morning I am sure I saw a new end of motorway sign. Then a 50 limit and I am sure a clearway sign. Then 50 repeaters all the way down to the Frodingham grange roundabout. I was certain this new 1 mile stretch from the new roundabout to the Frodingham grange roundabout was going to be a-road.

If it is staying as motorway (albeit with a new number) then it means there won't be access for all types of vehicle to the new lincolnshire lakes development from Frodingham Grange (which I thought was all part of the plan).

So surely the signs must be a mistake?
delinquentwoody
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Re: M181

Post by delinquentwoody »

Managed to get this picture on the way to work..
20210506_053420.jpg
I was mistaken yesterday and the signs on the other approaches have not yet been installed on the new bases.
It's still a work in progress.. the M181 chopsticks are still there 10 metres after this sign. So, I guess this means currently the A1077(M) covers this 10 metre length between the sign and the chopstick?!
XC70
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Re: M181

Post by XC70 »

delinquentwoody wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 05:53 Managed to get this picture on the way to work.. 20210506_053420.jpg
I was mistaken yesterday and the signs on the other approaches have not yet been installed on the new bases.
It's still a work in progress.. the M181 chopsticks are still there 10 metres after this sign. So, I guess this means currently the A1077(M) covers this 10 metre length between the sign and the chopstick?!
Wow. And that is on the frodingham grange roundabout entry to the motorway?
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jervi
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Re: M181

Post by jervi »

Oh I misunderstood what you meant by your last post.
I thought that the whole current M181 would be numbered as the A1077(M), which would make signage easier since there is one less road between places and the M180. Or is that the plan in the long run?

Also that plane should be flying left, not right...
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Patrick Harper
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Re: M181

Post by Patrick Harper »

delinquentwoody wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 05:53 Managed to get this picture on the way to work.. 20210506_053420.jpg
No chopsticks on the sign, and no 'Motorway' typeface. :(
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Chris5156
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Re: M181

Post by Chris5156 »

delinquentwoody wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 05:53Managed to get this picture on the way to work.. 20210506_053420.jpg
This is an amazing discovery - thank you for the picture!

I have to say I'm absolutely torn on this. The two sides arguing in my head are something like this.

Strict, disappointed Chris
Ridiculous. The northern section of M181 has been physically separated from the motorway network by a flat roundabout junction. Continuing to apply motorway regulations seems silly now and standard practice (to the extent there is any "standard practice" any more when it comes to the application of motorway regulations) is to downgrade it to an all-purpose A-road. And even if you are going to retain it as motorway, which is totally unprecedented, the idea is to create a brand new motorway number for it, which will have the effect of making a new motorway in its own right that runs for less than a mile between two flat roundabouts and has no intermediate junctions. It's madness and it should never have happened. What has happened to highway engineering in this country? What sort of lack of knowledge and experience leads to this sort of decision being made?

Road enthusiast Chris
This is absolutely brilliant. What an amazing new weird anomaly! We can talk about this for hours. It's absolutely bizarre and I wish the road network had more oddities like this because they're the thing I find more enjoyable than anything else. I'm going to visit and take pictures as soon as I possibly can. I love it.

...It is, in summary, absolutely stupid, but also and at the same time, absolutely wonderful :laugh:
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Re: M181

Post by Bryn666 »

We really do not understand motorways at all do we?
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Re: M181

Post by Bryn666 »

delinquentwoody wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 05:53 Managed to get this picture on the way to work.. 20210506_053420.jpg
I was mistaken yesterday and the signs on the other approaches have not yet been installed on the new bases.
It's still a work in progress.. the M181 chopsticks are still there 10 metres after this sign. So, I guess this means currently the A1077(M) covers this 10 metre length between the sign and the chopstick?!
Why is the plane pointing the wrong way? Why is the number at the top in the wrong typeface?

Once again basic sign design details...
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XC70
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Re: M181

Post by XC70 »

Does this mean that the new flat roundabout is the responsibility of H.E.? I am right in saying that HE are responsible for all motorways?

I must dig out the article from the Scunthorpe Telegraph. I am sure the council announced 4 million quid to build the roundabout and talked about detrunking the remaining old M181.
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Re: M181

Post by XC70 »

I found the article.

https://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/news ... 81-4eventu

It says this "The project forms part of a wider highways scheme which will eventually also see another roundabout built at the southern end of the M181, at which point the road will be detrunked and will no longer be a motorway."

So it looks like this A1077(M) leading to a roundabout to then become the M181 is an interim measure. Although "eventually" could be a very long time for an interim measure.

When the second roundabout is built the whole lot will become de-trunked and either the M181 will be a tiny stub or the stub will just be a slip road to the M180.

So that explains what they are up to but it still makes no sense to me. It seems like an unnecessarily complicated and convoluted way to go about it. Just de-trunk the northern bit now and start the M181 at the new roundabout. How simple would that be.....
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Chris Bertram
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Re: M181

Post by Chris Bertram »

XC70 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:13 Does this mean that the new flat roundabout is the responsibility of H.E.? I am right in saying that HE are responsible for all motorways?

I must dig out the article from the Scunthorpe Telegraph. I am sure the council announced 4 million quid to build the roundabout and talked about detrunking the remaining old M181.
No, there are quite a few local authority-maintained motorways, usually urban motorways like A58(M), A64(M), A57(M), A38(M), and I'm not sure about M32, M621, M602 and M606. HE are in any case only responsible for trunk roads in England. Viewers in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own programmes.
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Steven
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Re: M181

Post by Steven »

XC70 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:24 So that explains what they are up to but it still makes no sense to me. It seems like an unnecessarily complicated and convoluted way to go about it. Just de-trunk the northern bit now and start the M181 at the new roundabout. How simple would that be.....
Actually, it's a lot more complex than the current situation. To just stick new signs up and allocate a new number is easy.

To despecialise the road to become all purpose and detrunk is a lot more paperwork.


I note that there's a number of people in this thread saying that it's pointless being a motorway. Well, once again I'll remind people that being a Special Road comes with all sorts of benefits, for example, a lack of frontage development and the fact that the gas board can't immediately dig it up to put a gas main in.
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Bryn666
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Re: M181

Post by Bryn666 »

Steven wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:43
XC70 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 10:24 So that explains what they are up to but it still makes no sense to me. It seems like an unnecessarily complicated and convoluted way to go about it. Just de-trunk the northern bit now and start the M181 at the new roundabout. How simple would that be.....
Actually, it's a lot more complex than the current situation. To just stick new signs up and allocate a new number is easy.

To despecialise the road to become all purpose and detrunk is a lot more paperwork.


I note that there's a number of people in this thread saying that it's pointless being a motorway. Well, once again I'll remind people that being a Special Road comes with all sorts of benefits, for example, a lack of frontage development and the fact that the gas board can't immediately dig it up to put a gas main in.
Although that is the long term plan to add another roundabout and more development. We are in danger of creating a French A660 situation here I think.
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Chris5156
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Re: M181

Post by Chris5156 »

I can see that it might be administratively easier at this stage to leave motorway regulations in place - though presumably someone has already had to publish orders to despecialise the bit where the roundabout is now located, so they could have despecialised the rest at the same time. What doesn't make a lot of sense is the allocation of a temporary number! (Not that I'm complaining. It's brilliantly silly and I love it.)

As we all know, of course, this bit of Lincolnshire has form when it comes to short-lived numbers for weird spur motorways :D
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jackal
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Re: M181

Post by jackal »

As there will be two new roundabouts, is it possible that they're going for maximum sabristic value with a north-south sequence of M181-[all purpose road]-A1077(M)?
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the cheesecake man
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Re: M181

Post by the cheesecake man »

If it's to remain motorway for no good reason, why not just keep it as M181? :confused: Or if it needs a new number why not M182? :)

At least there'll be a new entry on Pathetic Motorways to look forward to! :thumbsup:
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A303Chris
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Re: M181

Post by A303Chris »

Chris56000 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 20:12 It could be that it's been decided to retain the motorway regulations as far as the original end of them as Frodingham Grange Roundabout and reclassify the M181 as A1077(M) – I certainly got the impression the M180 J3 was going to be signed "Scunthorpe (Central & West) A1077" with the motorway regulations terminating on the new B1450 access roundabout!
But it's not the B1450 bridge it's the unclassified one to the north, Brumble Common Lane as shown with the roundabout under construction on Streetview in January.

As junction 3 is a trumpet and you can only get on the M180 with no chance of turning around the southern 1 1/2 miles has to remain motorway, so I would assume M181 stays as all the signs on the M180 would need to be replaced.

If the top 1/2 mile becomes the A1077 (M) would it be an orphan motorway as the roundabout would be a non classified road. Would be a bizarre arrangement with two motorways split with a roundabout served by an unclassified road. However nothing surprises me about the civil service or local government any more
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Re: M181

Post by c2R »

It could be the start of something really forward thinking - having special roads legislation used more frequently to control access and development on non motorway roads.

I mean, it's not, but it could be....
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