Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

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baroudeur
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by baroudeur »

P&R at Great Denham (Bedford) has never been used since it was built.

https://tinyurl.com/y6eojd6n
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Jim606
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by Jim606 »

baroudeur wrote: Sat Jun 08, 2019 17:41 P&R at Great Denham (Bedford) has never been used since it was built.

https://tinyurl.com/y6eojd6n
Good find, I haven't hear of this one before. I do wonder about the Colchester one, as it isn't generating the income they originally intended. The area around the P&R is to be developed with more housing etc. so it will be interesting to see if this will help? Otherwise, I can see a time when they end up having to sell part of it off to balance the books?
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trickstat
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by trickstat »

I would have thought that for a Park & Ride site to be a success you need 2 things-

1) Sufficient numbers of people to want to come into the centre of the city or town from outside of the town and from a direction that makes the site a convenient location.
2) For the Park & Ride to provide definite advantages compared with driving into the centre in terms of things like congestion, parking costs or finding a space.

Bedford, for example, has neither the retail facilities of nearby Milton Keynes or the tourism pull of, relatively nearby, Cambridge. FWIW, it is also no longer the seat of a County Council.
baroudeur
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by baroudeur »

trickstat wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 18:15 I would have thought that for a Park & Ride site to be a success you need 2 things-

1) Sufficient numbers of people to want to come into the centre of the city or town from outside of the town and from a direction that makes the site a convenient location.
2) For the Park & Ride to provide definite advantages compared with driving into the centre in terms of things like congestion, parking costs or finding a space.

Bedford, for example, has neither the retail facilities of nearby Milton Keynes or the tourism pull of, relatively nearby, Cambridge. FWIW, it is also no longer the seat of a County Council.
The Bedford (Elstow) P&R on the south side of the town has a steady flow of customers. Incidentally, considering the huge distances across MK it only has one P&R adjacent to the M1 j14 which is free and seems to cater for long distance coach travellers rather than shoppers.

The Great Denham P&R is not used apparently because there was no agreement on who would pay for its operation. Presumably, as it is part of the huge housing estates that comprise Great Denham the developers built it as part of the green field development.
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Jim606
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by Jim606 »

trickstat wrote: Sun Jun 09, 2019 18:15 I would have thought that for a Park & Ride site to be a success you need 2 things-

1) Sufficient numbers of people to want to come into the centre of the city or town from outside of the town and from a direction that makes the site a convenient location.
2) For the Park & Ride to provide definite advantages compared with driving into the centre in terms of things like congestion, parking costs or finding a space.

Bedford, for example, has neither the retail facilities of nearby Milton Keynes or the tourism pull of, relatively nearby, Cambridge. FWIW, it is also no longer the seat of a County Council.
Colchester, like many other places does have its traffic problems and the local council plus, Essex CC decided that a P&R, like nearby Chelmsford & Ipswich would be a good idea. However, the Colchester P&R doesn't seem to have attracted the level of usage it was designed for. Things could change, with the local council selling off parking lots in the town centre, as they have already done to a certain degree. But, most of the big car parks are still under council control and they like the income. Plus, however convenient the P&R bus, people are still driving in the centre and parking.
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Jim606
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by Jim606 »

Colchester's P&R has been back in the local news yet again. This time the operators are renting out the space for a Sunday boot sale. Is this a first in the UK?
https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/195 ... boot-sale/
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Gareth Thomas
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by Gareth Thomas »

Folkestone and Hythe District Council had plans to trial a park and ride into Folkestone this summer. Drivers would have parked near Junction 12 of the M20 at Cheriton and then busses would have taken you into town, stopping only at Folkestone Central railway station, the town centre and the harbour. Services launched in June, initially only on weekends. It wasn't used that much at first but the expectation was when the school holidays started it would go to seven days a week and be used a lot more.

Then came the pingdemic. Stagecoach had driver shortages, so in order to concentrate on keeping the local bus network running, the park and ride had to be suspended and never came back.

I wonder if they might trial it again next summer, as the hopes were it would prove successful and become permanent.
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KeithW
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by KeithW »

Gareth Thomas wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 00:03 Folkestone and Hythe District Council had plans to trial a park and ride into Folkestone this summer. Drivers would have parked near Junction 12 of the M20 at Cheriton and then busses would have taken you into town, stopping only at Folkestone Central railway station, the town centre and the harbour. Services launched in June, initially only on weekends. It wasn't used that much at first but the expectation was when the school holidays started it would go to seven days a week and be used a lot more.

Then came the pingdemic. Stagecoach had driver shortages, so in order to concentrate on keeping the local bus network running, the park and ride had to be suspended and never came back.

I wonder if they might trial it again next summer, as the hopes were it would prove successful and become permanent.
Given how much parking there is down on Marine Parade I cant see many people using the P&R to the harbour and there is a pretty big car park at Middleburg Square and the major supermarkets in the centre. I also really question how many people would take the Park and Ride to Folkestone Central.

Typical GSV of Marine Parade car park in August 2015
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.07748 ... 6656?hl=en
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Patrick Harper
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by Patrick Harper »

Reading's Loddon Bridge P&R was replaced by a new one at Winnersh Triangle in October 2015 and to date remains disused. The old bus-only slip-road for A3290 westbound could be reconnected to Earley Way and made general purpose again, but at a cost.
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Bfivethousand
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by Bfivethousand »

Leicester (Birstall) P&R is being used as a massive Covid / PCR testing facility. A section of the car park is still being used for P&R purposes, it must only be running at around 25% capacity though.
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Sirsquinn
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by Sirsquinn »

Not too sure of the story with this Park and Ride in Southport. Don't know if it's ever been used. It's situated right next to a railway so perhaps a future parkway type station.

There is another park and ride in Southport but it's pretty much right next to the town centre anyway.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/VBTRFjgcPQ4pGKLN9
fras
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by fras »

Ludlow P & R
https://andybodders.co.uk/2020/07/01/lu ... was-fixed/
I suspect the bus service to town is so infrequent most people have given up on it.

For me, all these P & Rs are just council box-ticking exercises. Why would Ludlow need a P&R, for heavens sake !
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IAN
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by IAN »

fras wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 19:35 Ludlow P & R
https://andybodders.co.uk/2020/07/01/lu ... was-fixed/
I suspect the bus service to town is so infrequent most people have given up on it.

For me, all these P & Rs are just council box-ticking exercises. Why would Ludlow need a P&R, for heavens sake !
It was used a little more when one of the main car parks in the town was used as a Covid testing site and now it's even got a toilet! https://www.ludlowadvertiser.co.uk/news ... -eco-park/
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Gareth Thomas
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by Gareth Thomas »

KeithW wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 09:51
Gareth Thomas wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 00:03 Folkestone and Hythe District Council had plans to trial a park and ride into Folkestone this summer. Drivers would have parked near Junction 12 of the M20 at Cheriton and then busses would have taken you into town, stopping only at Folkestone Central railway station, the town centre and the harbour. Services launched in June, initially only on weekends. It wasn't used that much at first but the expectation was when the school holidays started it would go to seven days a week and be used a lot more.

Then came the pingdemic. Stagecoach had driver shortages, so in order to concentrate on keeping the local bus network running, the park and ride had to be suspended and never came back.

I wonder if they might trial it again next summer, as the hopes were it would prove successful and become permanent.
Given how much parking there is down on Marine Parade I cant see many people using the P&R to the harbour and there is a pretty big car park at Middleburg Square and the major supermarkets in the centre. I also really question how many people would take the Park and Ride to Folkestone Central.

Typical GSV of Marine Parade car park in August 2015
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.07748 ... 6656?hl=en
I would say the bus stopping at Folkestone Central would be to pick up anyone who had arrived in the town by train. There are no direct busses from the station to the harbour so had the scheme been able to continue it might have picked up a fair few travellers from the station in the summertime.

The car parks are lovely down the Harbour, but you need to drive through the town to get to them and they want to cut the number of vehicles driving through the town.

In a related topic, in Canterbury the Sturry Road Park and Ride has only recently resumed operations. This was mostly due to the driver problems Stagecoach are having, and the fact that the 6/8/8A/9 busses all serve that route anyway, so Park and Ride passengers could simply park up as usual and then use any of those services.
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B1040
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by B1040 »

Cambridge P&R is also suffering from driver shortages. Service frequency has dropped from every 10 minutes to every 15 minutes.
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by unrepentantfool »

Patrick Harper wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:42 Reading's Loddon Bridge P&R was replaced by a new one at Winnersh Triangle in October 2015 and to date remains disused. The old bus-only slip-road for A3290 westbound could be reconnected to Earley Way and made general purpose again, but at a cost.
That's because it was originally replaced to link it with Win Triangle station and move it away from the Showcase car park, which was perennially underwater -due to its location on the River Loddon's floodplain. I think the slip road is more likely to be demolished, Reading/Woky Councils don't want to encourage more capacity for cars into central Reading, although it might be useful if the one of the park and ride buses from Winnersh Triangle also visited the new Thames Valley Park park and ride to cut waiting time at the junction for general traffic.
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by Gareth Thomas »

Maidstone’s Park and Ride is to be axed from next year.....
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Jim606
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by Jim606 »

Colchester's P&R has been in the local news yet again https://www.gazette-news.co.uk/news/234 ... nts-plans/ The plan is to diversify and generating new income streams, as it is only operating at a capacity of 17%.
Colchester park and ride could host more events under plans
19th April 2023 PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT COLCHESTER By Lewis Adams

COLCHESTER’S park and ride could host static car meets, drive-in cinemas and church services under a new proposal. The vision could breathe fresh life into the struggling facility in Cuckoo Farm Way which sees just 17 per cent of its services used. But Essex County Council is relying on Colchester Council to grant it ongoing permission to use the 970 space car park as a base for temporary events whenever it desires. If approval is granted, county chiefs will not have to seek planning permission each time they want to hold an event on the site off junction 28 of the A12.

Planning documents reveal County Hall wants to offer the chance for theatre workshops, driving courses and cycle safety training to be held on the land. Church services, car washing, and drive-in cinemas could also be hosted, as well as coffee vendors, car boot sales and static car meets which have already been enjoyed by enthusiasts there. A statement reads: “Allowing other uses at the site will make effective use of the land, add value and provide benefit to the communities it serves. “It should be noted that the proposals for temporary uses will form a secondary function of the site and will not be at the expense of the primary function as a park and ride facility.” Changing habits post pandemic have taken a significant toll on the park and ride service, with monthly ticket sales 60 per cent down on pre-pandemic levels. At the moment the facility is operating at a measly 17 per cent capacity. The statement adds: “The reasons behind this are likely to be wide ranging but increased working from home practices will be a significant contributory factor.”

Colchester Council leader David King said he will support any scheme to generate extra revenue for local governments amid “huge financial pressures”. But he called on Essex County Council to ensure bus services in Colchester are prioritised above all other factors, including the rapid transit system planned for the city. He added: “I recognise that when demand is soft for that service there will be opportunities for that space to be opened up to the community.”
BF2142
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by BF2142 »

Many small and medium-size towns just don't have the rural catchment to justify a P&R project. If you live in a rural area, you rely on your car. People just won't drive to a P&R site to pay for an infrequent bus to take them the final mile or so to the centre. In the time they wait for a bus, the could have completed their inward journey, bought what the need and started their trip home.
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Re: Under-utilised, badly sited or even failed Park & Rides

Post by jabbaboy »

BF2142 wrote: Mon Apr 24, 2023 09:29 Many small and medium-size towns just don't have the rural catchment to justify a P&R project. If you live in a rural area, you rely on your car. People just won't drive to a P&R site to pay for an infrequent bus to take them the final mile or so to the centre. In the time they wait for a bus, the could have completed their inward journey, bought what the need and started their trip home.
All P&R's are useless imo when it involves buses unless the place your going to doesn't have any parking at all (like Whitby or York) or it's through the roof pricing wise and you pick up some workers who can't afford to pay the price.

They need to be connected to a train or metro / tram to actually be useful so it's actually quicker than driving in and you avoid the traffic. The numerous of them around Manchester with the Metrolink are good systems, similar to Newcraighall at Edinburgh.

Also P&R's need to be clever and be dual use. York has it perfectly by siting 4 of them next to a major outlet village (Designer Village), retail park / football ground (Monk's Cross / Vanguarde), the main college (Askham Bar) or York University East Campus (Grimston Bar) so they have a flow of passengers in the opposite direction so they can up the frequency and make it more attractive.
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