West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
User avatar
Gav
Member
Posts: 1968
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2005 17:44

West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by Gav »

So blank cheque book time -

Sorting out the mess that is west lothain - improvements to the infrastructure that would provide a welcome relief to traffic and open up areas for development.

The A899 fascinates me built to serve Livingston - Make use of it Extend it north towards bo'ness - provides a good main road to allow development in that area - get some decent housing built. Link to Uphall station and utilise the park and ride.

Extend the A899 south and linkl it to an improved A70 corridor - get that sorted and upgraded - again allows it to serve as a link to the city bypass and opens up area for development. Just as long as it a good quality road. Id be inclined to have this as dual providing a dual carriageway link from the city bypass to Livingston....

Sort out the airport access to the M8.

Upgrade the M8 to managed motorway three lanes please bypass to Bathgate...

Sort out gogar burn roundabout sort out Maybury junction. Link A902 to A90 directly.

City bypass three lanes
Attachments
edinburgh.jpg
User avatar
michael769
Member
Posts: 11413
Joined: Mon May 30, 2005 20:36
Location: Polbeth, West Lothian
Contact:

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by michael769 »

The A70 in West Lothian is too remote to be worth upgrading - there just isn't the demand.

Better to invest in dualling the A71, bypass Wilkieston and the accident blackspot at Dalmahoy.

The A70 in Edinburgh is very congested but there is no space for improvements witjiut devastating the Juniper Green/Currie/Balerno corridor (which in unthinkable given the affluence of the area). The geography around Currie and Juniper Green is not favourable for a bypass (the Valley down to the Water of Leith is too steep. Even if you could I doubt it would acieve much the bulk of traffic is locally generated, West of the Balerno traffic lights the A70 is virtually deserted even at peak times.

The A899 proposal is interesting but I think a non starter. It's a long way from the upgraded rail lines, and the geography up there (steep hills) would make development unnatractive and the route vulnerable to weather disruption in winter). Far better to focus on the three rail corridors, which maximises the transport choices available to residents.

As well as the A71 dualling, I'd like to see a widening of the M8, 3 lanes from Eurocentral (where the 3 lane section of the current completion program will end), 4 from Junction 3A (and structures between 3A and the new Heartlands junction build to accomode widening to 4 there), down to Jct 2.

Upgrading of road links to Winchburgh will also be needed to accomodate the massive growth planned there. Planners very much have their heads in sand about the lack of infrastructure to serve their plans out there, relying on a single rail station, that if it ever actually happens will be unfavourably sited for the new developments. I'd like to see a S2 bypass and limk road down towards a D2 Newbridge bypass which would provide improved links out to Broxburn from the widened M8.

Of course all that will just funnel traffic down into queues in Edinburgh. There is little space for capacity increases in the city, so some innovation would be needed in terms of traffic management.

Within Livingston I'd like to see a rail link between the two lines, ideally comeing as close as possible to the town centre and the employment centre at the Kirkton Campus. the current stations are good for locals commuting to Edinburgh, but rubbish for folks who work in Livingston.
Minds are like parachutes - they only function when open
Thomas Robert Dewar(1864-1930)
Take the pledge
User avatar
wrinkly
Member
Posts: 8989
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:17
Location: Leeds

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by wrinkly »

michael769 wrote:As well as the A71 dualling, I'd like to see a widening of the M8, 3 lanes from Eurocentral (where the 3 lane section of the current completion program will end)
I thought it was supposed to become four 2-lane carriageways (all with hard shoulders) through J6.
stuartf
Member
Posts: 106
Joined: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:15
Location: Edinburgh

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by stuartf »

The (less impossible) problems in west Edinburgh are (1) traffic between the west and the bypass to the east, e.g. M8 to A720 via Hermiston and Calder junctions, and (2) traffic between the M8/A720 and north Edinburgh.

Gav's proposal to expand the A70 would help alleviate the bottleneck at the Calder junction where traffic tries to get from M8 onto the eastbound bypass, while other traffic tries to get into the centre of town. But as mentioned, there's nowhere to put a wider road, and simply widening the bypass would surely be easier. Then build a nice multi-level freeflow interchange to replace Hermiston Gate and Calder junctions. If you can't get traffic into town, at least get it around the edges faster.

A fast link to north Edinburgh from the M8 or A720 bypass, preferably avoiding as many as possible of the Gogar roundabout, Maybury junction, and Barnton junction, would be a big help to spread out congestion. With the regeneration of Granton there are some very nice roads in North Edinburgh but they link up to some appalling bottlenecks. I don't think this is terribly likely, as you'd have to cut through green belt and some very expensive houses in Cammo and Barnton (but even just dumping traffic onto the A90 at Barnton would relieve congestion at Gogar/Maybury). I'm sure this has been discussed endlessly.

Further west, existing links between the M8 and M9 are poor and I'd have thought improving the A801 would be first priority: maybe more useful than a link further east? I'm not sure.

As for Livingston, if you had unlimited money, you could reroute the Shotts railway line through the centre of town and out by Kirkton. Or extend the tram :wink:
User avatar
Truvelo
Member
Posts: 17468
Joined: Wed May 29, 2002 21:10
Location: Staffordshire
Contact:

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by Truvelo »

The problem we've ended up with is caused by the cancellation of the original proposals for Gogar and the awkward roundabout route from the City Bypass to the Forth Bridge that exists purely as a result of the lack of the northern continuation of the City Bypass.

The fancy C/D roads beside the A720 at Hermiston Gait are a white elephant because of the unbuilt A720 north of Gogar. This has meant a higher than anticipated amount of traffic turns off the A720 at Hermiston to use the M8.

Building the Gogar to Queensferry link would go a long way to improving matters but I'm certain plans to do so are long dead by now. The next best thing is for freeflowing links between the M8 and A720 south at Hermiston. Then the A720 needs widening to D3 throughout with the section containing the hard shoulder being relatively straightforward to implement. The M8 also needs an additional lane or a least hard shoulder running as a stopgap measure.

The other roads are less important to me as I hardly use them so rather selfishly I see no need to improve them :lol:
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Potholes ate my car
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 13:53

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by Potholes ate my car »

Truvelo wrote:The problem we've ended up with is caused by the cancellation of the original proposals for Gogar and the awkward roundabout route from the City Bypass to the Forth Bridge that exists purely as a result of the lack of the northern continuation of the City Bypass.

The fancy C/D roads beside the A720 at Hermiston Gait are a white elephant because of the unbuilt A720 north of Gogar. This has meant a higher than anticipated amount of traffic turns off the A720 at Hermiston to use the M8.

Building the Gogar to Queensferry link would go a long way to improving matters but I'm certain plans to do so are long dead by now. The next best thing is for freeflowing links between the M8 and A720 south at Hermiston. Then the A720 needs widening to D3 throughout with the section containing the hard shoulder being relatively straightforward to implement. The M8 also needs an additional lane or a least hard shoulder running as a stopgap measure.

The other roads are less important to me as I hardly use them so rather selfishly I see no need to improve them :lol:
I think the tram depot which now lies to the north of Gogar roundabout is a pretty clear indication that those plans are indeed dead.

I had forgotten how long it can take to travel north-south through West Lothian until I drove a seemingly interminable journey from Falkirk to Livingston a while back. Going by the Avon Gorge it just seemed to take forever. Some sort of rail connection linking Livingston centre, Bathgate and Falkirk would be good.
XC70
Member
Posts: 624
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 23:22

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by XC70 »

Gav wrote:So blank cheque book time -

Sorting out the mess that is west lothain - improvements to the infrastructure that would provide a welcome relief to traffic and open up areas for development.
Is this the West Lothian question I have heard so much about lately? :D
m80
Member
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 12:38

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by m80 »

michael769 wrote:.

As well as the A71 dualling, I'd like to see a widening of the M8, 3 lanes from Eurocentral (where the 3 lane section of the current completion program will end)...
Including the new All Purpose Road there will be 4-6 lanes in each direction.

Motorway:-
Baillieston to Shawhead - D3M
Shawhead to Eurocentral - D4M
Eurocentral to Chapelhall - D3M
Chapelhall to Newhouse - D2M

APR:-
Baillieston to Eurocentral - D2AP with hardshoulders
Eurocentral to Newhouse - 2 separate one way carriageways each with 2 lanes plus hard strips
Benny
Member
Posts: 2240
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2013 18:04

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by Benny »

XC70 wrote:
Gav wrote:So blank cheque book time -

Sorting out the mess that is west lothain - improvements to the infrastructure that would provide a welcome relief to traffic and open up areas for development.
Is this the West Lothian question I have heard so much about lately? :D

Damn was just going to post the exact same point!!
Living my life on the edge......of two counties!

Formerly known as Roverman

Still driving a British built car, made in a former Rover factory......
User avatar
roadtester
Member
Posts: 31476
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 18:05
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by roadtester »

roverman wrote:
XC70 wrote:
Gav wrote:So blank cheque book time -

Sorting out the mess that is west lothain - improvements to the infrastructure that would provide a welcome relief to traffic and open up areas for development.
Is this the West Lothian question I have heard so much about lately? :D

Damn was just going to post the exact same point!!
Ha ha, you both beat me to it!
User avatar
Owain
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 26210
Joined: Fri Aug 21, 2009 17:02
Location: Leodis

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by Owain »

They ought to do something about the A720. I drove it recently with some friends. Every single car was in the outside lane.

When I wanted to turn off onto the A70 (to come back to Northern Ireland), I moved over to lane 1 and started edging gradually up alongside the traffic in lane 2. Some moron in a white Focus thought I was trying to undertake, and put the squeeze on me so badly that our mirrors almost touched. I hope he realised what a moron he'd been when I then disappeared innocently off down the slip road, to join the wonderful A70 for Ayr.

The Focus had a B- plate for Birmingham, so I am not blaming any Scots for this numptytude... although perhaps you could do something like building a D3M ringroad. Edinburgh is a fine capital, and deserves a proper one!
Former President & F99 Driver

Viva la Repubblica!
djw1981
Member
Posts: 1803
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 00:07
Location: Falkirk

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by djw1981 »

michael769 wrote: Sun Jun 07, 2015 21:48
Upgrading of road links to Winchburgh will also be needed to accomodate the massive growth planned there. Planners very much have their heads in sand about the lack of infrastructure to serve their plans out there, relying on a single rail station, that if it ever actually happens will be unfavourably sited for the new developments. I'd like to see a S2 bypass and limk road down towards a D2 Newbridge bypass which would provide improved links out to Broxburn from the widened M8.
Well the SG Ministers have approved the plans for the dumbell GSJ at a new M9 J2A for Winchburgh. With re-aligned B8020 running up to the village. https://www.transport.gov.scot/transpor ... ion/#63982
and the decision from Scottish Ministers - sent to people who replied to the consultantion by email https://www.dropbox.com/s/e57vukr0437su ... 1.pdf?dl=0 but not yet on TS website.
jnty
Member
Posts: 1727
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 00:12

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by jnty »

Wow - that provides an extremely attractive way to skip round congestion on the approach to the Queensferry Crossing if you're coming out of Edinburgh on the M8. It looks as if the new route the junction provides off the B8020 (or the single track back road for rat run aficionados) and A904 would be favourable if there were more than 5 minutes' delay on the approach to the bridge, which is an extremely common situation even at weekends. I'm not surprised by the volume of detailed objections and I'm not sure the official responses, which generally seem to assume zero congestion at all times, really cut it.
djw1981
Member
Posts: 1803
Joined: Mon May 05, 2008 00:07
Location: Falkirk

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by djw1981 »

When I saw the winchburgh development initially, I had wondered if they would just turn the existing J2 (B8046) into an all-movements junction for that reason. In due course, it's not a lot to re route B8020 to the East of Newton, or even create an A904 southern bypass of the village. A904 through Newton is already a 20 limit.

Any new Winchburgh rail station will also attract commuters from South Queenssferry headed towards Glasgow (or even Edinburgh given how congested Dalmeny station car park is /was by 8am) and exacerbate that traffic.
jnty
Member
Posts: 1727
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 00:12

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by jnty »

I'm surprised the've even ruled out shutting the single track road. If you're going to create a rat run, at least make sure it's up to standard!
Altnabreac
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:50

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by Altnabreac »

jnty wrote: Tue Oct 12, 2021 17:48 Wow - that provides an extremely attractive way to skip round congestion on the approach to the Queensferry Crossing if you're coming out of Edinburgh on the M8. It looks as if the new route the junction provides off the B8020 (or the single track back road for rat run aficionados) and A904 would be favourable if there were more than 5 minutes' delay on the approach to the bridge, which is an extremely common situation even at weekends. I'm not surprised by the volume of detailed objections and I'm not sure the official responses, which generally seem to assume zero congestion at all times, really cut it.
As far as I can see none of the objections raised congestion based rat running from M9 Newbridge - Queensferry Crossing as an issue. They were all around either the general principles of the scheme or about M9 west - Queensferry Crossing traffic which it is correctly pointed is unlikely to increase as the new junction is no quicker than exiting at J2.

So that potential issue isn't assessed because it isn't complained about.
Altnabreac
Member
Posts: 506
Joined: Wed Sep 30, 2015 11:50

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by Altnabreac »

jnty wrote: Wed Oct 13, 2021 15:25 I'm surprised the've even ruled out shutting the single track road. If you're going to create a rat run, at least make sure it's up to standard!
I can't see why you would rat run along Bullyeon Road when there is rarely significant congestion on the A904 and when there is getting out of Bullyeon Road is challenging anyway. I don't see it as being a likely ratrun.
User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 11162
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: West Lothian - sorting out the traffic

Post by c2R »

Legislation for M9 J1B (Winchburgh junction) was published last week.

Special roads scheme: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2021 ... tents/made
Side roads order: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2021 ... tents/made
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
Post Reply