A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
Fluid Dynamics
Member
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2002 19:54

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by Fluid Dynamics »

I was suprised how light the traffic was on the simulator, and no queues westbound towards the M3. Doesn’t match my experience of using that Junction on a reasonably regular basis.
Glom
Member
Posts: 2827
Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 17:05
Location: Wiltshire

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by Glom »

So what exactly is the point of this?
MFB
Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2018 15:06

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by MFB »

As a new and regular user of this horrid interchange, has there been any updates on this?

Right turns from A3 south to M25 west during working hours are a blummin nightmare!
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7549
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jackal »

MFB wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 13:28 As a new and regular user of this horrid interchange, has there been any updates on this?

Right turns from A3 south to M25 west during working hours are a blummin nightmare!
Highways England intend to start construction of the much maligned elongation of the roundabout in 2020-21.
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7549
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jackal »

Layout submitted to PINS, including four lane ALR M25 through J10:

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... %20Nos.pdf
A320Driver
Member
Posts: 448
Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 19:11
Location: Leatherhead

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by A320Driver »

Decision delayed until 12 May 2021:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... -extension

Hopefully the SoS will see this scheme for what it is, a monumental waste of money. A decent intermediate solution would be to build the four left turn links, that in itself will relieve pressure on the roundabout and queues on both mainlines.
Formerly ‘guvvaA303’
User avatar
JohnA14J50
Banned
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 13:10
Location: Stowmarket

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by JohnA14J50 »

Not a user of this junction...how will making the roundabout bigger remotely help when it's clear the layout is not suitable?
The sun will shine on you again and the clouds will go away.
- Sir Captain Tom Moore. Hero of England.
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7549
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jackal »

A320Driver wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:22A decent intermediate solution would be to build the four left turn links, that in itself will relieve pressure on the roundabout and queues on both mainlines.
I quite agree.
User avatar
JammyDodge
Member
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 13:17

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by JammyDodge »

JohnA14J50 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:27 Not a user of this junction...how will making the roundabout bigger remotely help when it's clear the layout is not suitable?
It's called the classic British Bodge Job
Designing Tomorrow, Around the Past
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35755
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:45
A320Driver wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:22A decent intermediate solution would be to build the four left turn links, that in itself will relieve pressure on the roundabout and queues on both mainlines.
I quite agree.
The free-flow options were quite suitable, can only guess the giant roundabout is the product of someone who has only ever designed roundabouts...
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Jon Waters
Member
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Mar 23, 2019 14:49

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by Jon Waters »

It's awful! The first time I saw what was being proposed I was horrified. I don't use the junction very often but surely free flow left turn links should be more than adequate plus provision for nmu and cycle users? Maybe I am wrong?
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7549
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jackal »

As I've mentioned previously, the supposed environmental reasons are pretty shaky. Land take for option with a single freeflow right turn would be 9ha compared to 13ha for the elongated roundabout+left turns. I suspect it would also be cheaper.

Image

Image

It does come across as pure roundabout worship.
Last edited by jackal on Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:15, edited 1 time in total.
ABB125
Member
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 19:58

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by ABB125 »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 16:31
jackal wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:45
A320Driver wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:22A decent intermediate solution would be to build the four left turn links, that in itself will relieve pressure on the roundabout and queues on both mainlines.
I quite agree.
The free-flow options were quite suitable, can only guess the giant roundabout is the product of someone who has only ever designed roundabouts...
I have to say I quite liked the "double right-turn viaducts" option (rather more effective than the similar "upgrade" of the M6/A556 junction!), although the fact that the new-build left turns served different movements to the right turns flagged up red on the OCD monitor! :D Was an option ever considered for the right-turn flyovers, but with standard left-turn filters on the roundabout rather than the proposed linking up of the flyovers? That would significantly reduce the land take (no "wasted space" triangles of land) and presumably been cheaper for the same benefits.
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7549
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jackal »

ABB125 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:13 Was an option ever considered for the right-turn flyovers, but with standard left-turn filters on the roundabout rather than the proposed linking up of the flyovers? That would significantly reduce the land take (no "wasted space" triangles of land) and presumably been cheaper for the same benefits.
Not that I have seen. The single right turn option above was the nearest thing.

You can see most of the rejected options here: https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey ... 3-12768601
Last edited by jackal on Tue Jan 12, 2021 23:33, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
JammyDodge
Member
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2018 13:17

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by JammyDodge »

jackal wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:24
ABB125 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:13 Was an option ever considered for the right-turn flyovers, but with standard left-turn filters on the roundabout rather than the proposed linking up of the flyovers? That would significantly reduce the land take (no "wasted space" triangles of land) and presumably been cheaper for the same benefits.
Note that I have seen. The single right turn option above was the nearest thing.

You can see most of the rejected options here: https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey ... 3-12768601
Kinda surprised to see a regular cloverleaf design in there
Designing Tomorrow, Around the Past
User avatar
jervi
Member
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 16:29
Location: West Sussex

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jervi »

I think it should have a whirlpool or cloverstack so that it meets the current "expressway" standards of free-flow connection between motorways/expressways. A four level stack would be nice, but is a bit too much overkill
ABB125
Member
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2020 19:58

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by ABB125 »

jackal wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:24
ABB125 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:13 Was an option ever considered for the right-turn flyovers, but with standard left-turn filters on the roundabout rather than the proposed linking up of the flyovers? That would significantly reduce the land take (no "wasted space" triangles of land) and presumably been cheaper for the same benefits.
Note that I have seen. The single right turn option above was the nearest thing.

You can see most of the rejected options here: https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey ... 3-12768601
Some interesting options there! Shame they were rejected...
Micro The Maniac
Member
Posts: 1175
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 13:14
Location: Gone

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by Micro The Maniac »

A320Driver wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:22 A decent intermediate solution would be to build the four left turn links, that in itself will relieve pressure on the roundabout and queues on both mainlines.
Agreed. The existing layout already provides much more "stacking space" for the left turn manoeuvres, but they still have to stop at the traffic lights. Adding in free-flows for these would solve a significant proportion of the problem - in fact this could (potentially) allow for a SHRINKING of the lanes on the roundabout!
User avatar
jackal
Member
Posts: 7549
Joined: Tue Jan 08, 2008 23:33
Location: M6

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jackal »

We shouldn't overstate what the left turns will achieve. It would make the junction very similar to Simister (volumes already are very similar). It will still be very congested and ultimately freeflow right turns will certainly be required. Every inch of space will be required on the rbt.

I favour the 'left turns only' option not because it would solve anything, but because it would involve less pointless waste and disruption than the elongated roundabout and right turns have seemingly been ruled out.
BF2142
Member
Posts: 201
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2014 13:42
Location: Essex

Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by BF2142 »

JohnA14J50 wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:27 Not a user of this junction...how will making the roundabout bigger remotely help when it's clear the layout is not suitable?
Haha, roundabout used as a motorway to DC junction on nation's busiest road...what a stunning example of crap British sub-engineering. Save the money and build a free-flowing, high-speed interchange.
Post Reply