A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

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Fluid Dynamics
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by Fluid Dynamics » Mon Apr 02, 2018 19:08

I was suprised how light the traffic was on the simulator, and no queues westbound towards the M3. Doesn’t match my experience of using that Junction on a reasonably regular basis.

Glom
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by Glom » Mon Apr 02, 2018 20:53

So what exactly is the point of this?

MFB
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by MFB » Thu Apr 18, 2019 13:28

As a new and regular user of this horrid interchange, has there been any updates on this?

Right turns from A3 south to M25 west during working hours are a blummin nightmare!

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jackal
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jackal » Thu Apr 18, 2019 13:41

MFB wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 13:28
As a new and regular user of this horrid interchange, has there been any updates on this?

Right turns from A3 south to M25 west during working hours are a blummin nightmare!
Highways England intend to start construction of the much maligned elongation of the roundabout in 2020-21.

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jackal
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jackal » Wed Jan 08, 2020 13:45

Layout submitted to PINS, including four lane ALR M25 through J10:

https://infrastructure.planninginspecto ... %20Nos.pdf

A320Driver
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by A320Driver » Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:22

Decision delayed until 12 May 2021:

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/ ... -extension

Hopefully the SoS will see this scheme for what it is, a monumental waste of money. A decent intermediate solution would be to build the four left turn links, that in itself will relieve pressure on the roundabout and queues on both mainlines.
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JohnA14J50
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by JohnA14J50 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:27

Not a user of this junction...how will making the roundabout bigger remotely help when it's clear the layout is not suitable?
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jackal
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jackal » Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:45

A320Driver wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:22
A decent intermediate solution would be to build the four left turn links, that in itself will relieve pressure on the roundabout and queues on both mainlines.
I quite agree.

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JammyDodge
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by JammyDodge » Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:57

JohnA14J50 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:27
Not a user of this junction...how will making the roundabout bigger remotely help when it's clear the layout is not suitable?
It's called the classic British Bodge Job
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Bryn666
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by Bryn666 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 16:31

jackal wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:45
A320Driver wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:22
A decent intermediate solution would be to build the four left turn links, that in itself will relieve pressure on the roundabout and queues on both mainlines.
I quite agree.
The free-flow options were quite suitable, can only guess the giant roundabout is the product of someone who has only ever designed roundabouts...
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Jon Waters
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by Jon Waters » Tue Jan 12, 2021 16:51

It's awful! The first time I saw what was being proposed I was horrified. I don't use the junction very often but surely free flow left turn links should be more than adequate plus provision for nmu and cycle users? Maybe I am wrong?

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jackal
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jackal » Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:11

As I've mentioned previously, the supposed environmental reasons are pretty shaky. Land take for option with a single freeflow right turn would be 9ha compared to 13ha for the elongated roundabout+left turns. I suspect it would also be cheaper.

Image

Image

It does come across as pure roundabout worship.
Last edited by jackal on Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:15, edited 1 time in total.

ABB125
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by ABB125 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:13

Bryn666 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 16:31
jackal wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:45
A320Driver wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:22
A decent intermediate solution would be to build the four left turn links, that in itself will relieve pressure on the roundabout and queues on both mainlines.
I quite agree.
The free-flow options were quite suitable, can only guess the giant roundabout is the product of someone who has only ever designed roundabouts...
I have to say I quite liked the "double right-turn viaducts" option (rather more effective than the similar "upgrade" of the M6/A556 junction!), although the fact that the new-build left turns served different movements to the right turns flagged up red on the OCD monitor! :D Was an option ever considered for the right-turn flyovers, but with standard left-turn filters on the roundabout rather than the proposed linking up of the flyovers? That would significantly reduce the land take (no "wasted space" triangles of land) and presumably been cheaper for the same benefits.

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jackal
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jackal » Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:24

ABB125 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:13
Was an option ever considered for the right-turn flyovers, but with standard left-turn filters on the roundabout rather than the proposed linking up of the flyovers? That would significantly reduce the land take (no "wasted space" triangles of land) and presumably been cheaper for the same benefits.
Not that I have seen. The single right turn option above was the nearest thing.

You can see most of the rejected options here: https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey ... 3-12768601
Last edited by jackal on Tue Jan 12, 2021 23:33, edited 1 time in total.

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JammyDodge
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by JammyDodge » Tue Jan 12, 2021 20:17

jackal wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:24
ABB125 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:13
Was an option ever considered for the right-turn flyovers, but with standard left-turn filters on the roundabout rather than the proposed linking up of the flyovers? That would significantly reduce the land take (no "wasted space" triangles of land) and presumably been cheaper for the same benefits.
Note that I have seen. The single right turn option above was the nearest thing.

You can see most of the rejected options here: https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey ... 3-12768601
Kinda surprised to see a regular cloverleaf design in there
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jervi
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jervi » Tue Jan 12, 2021 23:10

I think it should have a whirlpool or cloverstack so that it meets the current "expressway" standards of free-flow connection between motorways/expressways. A four level stack would be nice, but is a bit too much overkill

ABB125
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by ABB125 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 23:29

jackal wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:24
ABB125 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 17:13
Was an option ever considered for the right-turn flyovers, but with standard left-turn filters on the roundabout rather than the proposed linking up of the flyovers? That would significantly reduce the land take (no "wasted space" triangles of land) and presumably been cheaper for the same benefits.
Note that I have seen. The single right turn option above was the nearest thing.

You can see most of the rejected options here: https://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/surrey ... 3-12768601
Some interesting options there! Shame they were rejected...

Micro The Maniac
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by Micro The Maniac » Wed Jan 13, 2021 06:21

A320Driver wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:22
A decent intermediate solution would be to build the four left turn links, that in itself will relieve pressure on the roundabout and queues on both mainlines.
Agreed. The existing layout already provides much more "stacking space" for the left turn manoeuvres, but they still have to stop at the traffic lights. Adding in free-flows for these would solve a significant proportion of the problem - in fact this could (potentially) allow for a SHRINKING of the lanes on the roundabout!

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jackal
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by jackal » Wed Jan 13, 2021 07:05

We shouldn't overstate what the left turns will achieve. It would make the junction very similar to Simister (volumes already are very similar). It will still be very congested and ultimately freeflow right turns will certainly be required. Every inch of space will be required on the rbt.

I favour the 'left turns only' option not because it would solve anything, but because it would involve less pointless waste and disruption than the elongated roundabout and right turns have seemingly been ruled out.

BF2142
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Re: A3/M25 Wisley Upgrade

Post by BF2142 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:46

JohnA14J50 wrote:
Tue Jan 12, 2021 15:27
Not a user of this junction...how will making the roundabout bigger remotely help when it's clear the layout is not suitable?
Haha, roundabout used as a motorway to DC junction on nation's busiest road...what a stunning example of crap British sub-engineering. Save the money and build a free-flowing, high-speed interchange.

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