M5 J4A - J6 Smart Motorway

[Jeni]

I'm disappointed that J5 appears to be getting standard verge mounted fork signs, rather than the cantilevered signs employed on other smart motorways. Wasn't there a guideline a while ago that all 4+ lane motorways had to use gantry signing for junctions? Is that no longer a thing?

Also I'm curious how the lane drops/gains at J4A will work out. Southbound I presume it will be a 2+2 lane gain, however northbound it could be a 2+2 diverge, but I'd hope that it would be a tiger tail with 3 lanes continuing on the M5 (It regains it's 3rd lane immediately after the verge currently)

[Truvelo]

Northbound will probably retain three lanes due to the hill.

As for the verge mounted signs, there's also a recent tendency for the variable speed limit roundels to be mounted the same way. This causes problems when there are lorries on your left blocking the signs from view.

[Jeni]

As for the verge mounted signs, there's also a recent tendency for the variable speed limit roundels to be mounted the same way. This causes problems when there are lorries on your left blocking the signs from view.

Not something I've spotted. Are you referring to the smaller VMS that are verge mounted? I've never seen these used for anything, even when the gantries/MS4s are displaying a lower limit.

I did ask what their purpose was a while back but nobody responded.

[Truvelo]

I'm referring to this which has a camera attached. Most drivers are used to seeing variable limits displayed on gantries but these are hard to see if there's a tall vehicle to your left.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.74897 ... 312!8i6656

[Jeni]

I'm referring to this which has a camera attached. Most drivers are used to seeing variable limits displayed on gantries but these are hard to see if there's a tall vehicle to your left.

The MS4s? Can't say that I've ever had one of those obstructed by a HGV for long enough to completely miss it.

[mapboy]

The MS4s? Can't say that I've ever had one of those obstructed by a HGV for long enough to completely miss it.

I think perhaps this could be more of an issue northbound between J5-4A, given the large number of lorries that overtake on that stretch.

I'm disappointed that J5 appears to be getting standard verge mounted fork signs, rather than the cantilevered signs employed on other smart motorways. Wasn't there a guideline a while ago that all 4+ lane motorways had to use gantry signing for junctions? Is that no longer a thing?

Is this for the 1m and 1/2m signs, as I'm sure I recall there was a big concrete block installed just before the slip roads for the final (cantilevered) sign.

[brummie_rob]

As for the verge mounted signs, there's also a recent tendency for the variable speed limit roundels to be mounted the same way. This causes problems when there are lorries on your left blocking the signs from view.

Not something I've spotted. Are you referring to the smaller VMS that are verge mounted? I've never seen these used for anything, even when the gantries/MS4s are displaying a lower limit.

I did ask what their purpose was a while back but nobody responded.

I think they are meant to be signed lane closures for roadworks to prevent crews putting out signs. Except I have never seen them in use and the crews still put out the signs which requires a rolling road block whilst it is done!

[Bryn666]

If 4A-6 is only using gantries for the final sign then that represents a significant change in design policy for smart motorways - the corner cutting and cost saving tricks are becoming more apparent and it undermines the whole concept.

[Jeni]

If 4A-6 is only using gantries for the final sign then that represents a significant change in design policy for smart motorways - the corner cutting and cost saving tricks are becoming more apparent and it undermines the whole concept.

The most northerly smart motorway section on the M1 (can't remember jct numbers off the top of my head) uses solely fork signs, not even a gantry at the diverge. Perhaps Haydn can fill us in, as the resident SM expert?

[mapboy]

If 4A-6 is only using gantries for the final sign then that represents a significant change in design policy for smart motorways - the corner cutting and cost saving tricks are becoming more apparent and it undermines the whole concept.

I can't comment on the section between J5-6 as it's a stretch I rarely use, but the northbound approach to 4A does at least have a number of gantries

[brummie_rob]

The M6 from 13 to the M6 Toll has around 4 full gantries that were installed new with the rest being at the side. You then have the ones approaching the M6 Toll which are concrete and were already in place. The rest of the section down to the M54 consisted of full gantry installs (some aren't even used though!). Doesn't surprise me they are cutting back though; it must cost a lot less. Plus construction should be quicker...but we know that isn't the case

[Jeni]

Also I'm curious how the lane drops/gains at J4A will work out. Southbound I presume it will be a 2+2 lane gain, however northbound it could be a 2+2 diverge, but I'd hope that it would be a tiger tail with 3 lanes continuing on the M5 (It regains it's 3rd lane immediately after the verge currently)

Signs have now appeared heading northbound, I can confirm that there will be 3 through M5 lanes, with a tiger tail diverge for the M42. Ultimately the best layout for the situation I feel, even though I'm not keen on tiger tails.

As expected, it looks doubtful that they'll have it completed in the initial quoted 11 months, but things aren't *that* far off now visually.

[brummie_rob]

Also I'm curious how the lane drops/gains at J4A will work out. Southbound I presume it will be a 2+2 lane gain, however northbound it could be a 2+2 diverge, but I'd hope that it would be a tiger tail with 3 lanes continuing on the M5 (It regains it's 3rd lane immediately after the verge currently)

Signs have now appeared heading northbound, I can confirm that there will be 3 through M5 lanes, with a tiger tail diverge for the M42. Ultimately the best layout for the situation I feel, even though I'm not keen on tiger tails.

As expected, it looks doubtful that they'll have it completed in the initial quoted 11 months, but things aren't *that* far off now visually.

I bet regular users will be glad when it has ended. All I hear about is accidents constantly on this section whilst the works have took place!

[mapboy]

I travelled on the J4A-5 section yesterday for the first time in the while; I was pleased to see the signs had started appearing. The cantilevered gantry for the J5 Southbound exit is now in place, however there is still no sign of the 1 and 1/2 mile signs (there aren't even any posts up in the verge) so I can't tell what form these are going to take.

Meanwhile, the 'Great Mountain of Rashwood' continues to grow even higher, and now towers above the junction. I'm not sure what they plan to do with it; I'm half expecting some sculpture like the Angel of the North to be placed on top!

A link has also now appeared on the Highways England site for the planned improvements to J6 (Sixways). Although two additional sets of traffic lights are to be added, I welcome the widening of the approach roads, given local residents currently form them anyway.

[Jeni]

A link has also now appeared on the Highways England site for the planned improvements to J6 (Sixways). Although two additional sets of traffic lights are to be added, I welcome the widening of the approach roads, given local residents currently form them anyway.

No signals being added on the Droitwich arm? That is very poor and only going to make it even more difficult to enter the roundabout there if the A449 arm is signalised! Will have to carry on heading up to J5 to head south methinks.

Poor, very poor I'm afraid.

[Chris Bertram]

A link has also now appeared on the Highways England site for the planned improvements to J6 (Sixways). Although two additional sets of traffic lights are to be added, I welcome the widening of the approach roads, given local residents currently form them anyway.

No signals being added on the Droitwich arm? That is very poor and only going to make it even more difficult to enter the roundabout there if the A449 arm is signalised! Will have to carry on heading up to J5 to head south methinks.

Poor, very poor I'm afraid.

Or carry on down the A38 to Fernhill Heath, then take the A4536 and join the A449 from that?

[Jeni]

Signs have now gone up that suggest that M5 southbound through J4A will also revert to 3 lanes, with the M42 having a tiger-tail merge with a single lane gain. Quite a surprising one tbh, with the sheer weight of traffic that joins from the M42 I'd have thought a double lane gain would have sufficed here.

The cantilevered gantry for the J5 Southbound exit is now in place, however there is still no sign of the 1 and 1/2 mile signs (there aren't even any posts up in the verge) so I can't tell what form these are going to take.

As of this morning, there were poles up for the 1 mile fork sign.

[Jeni]

Signs have now gone up that suggest that M5 southbound through J4A will also revert to 3 lanes, with the M42 having a tiger-tail merge with a single lane gain. Quite a surprising one tbh, with the sheer weight of traffic that joins from the M42 I'd have thought a double lane gain would have sufficed here.

Another new sign has gone up which contradicts this. Signs on the M5 suggest a 2+2 lane gain, signs on the M42 suggest just a 1+3 lane gain.

Things look nearly complete between 4A and 5 now, just a couple of signs to go up and some resurfacing, perhaps this section will open before the section between 5 and 6, which still looks like a mess.

[Bryn666]

A HE scheme and signs contradictory to the road layout? Well I never

[mapboy]

On my pass through the junction last week it now looks like the M42 sign has been changed to indicate a 2+2 lane gain.