M62/M60 smart motorway

[wrinkly]

Press release

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/extr ... t-motorway

[lefthandedspanner]

Press release

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/extr ... t-motorway

Excellent, now that means the eastbound ADSs for junction 20 will actually represent what's laid out on the ground!

[havaska_uk]

So I drove on the newly opened ALR part of the M62 and the road surface is terrible! Burn lines everywhere so everything looks a real mess, and potholes galore!

I was under the impression they were going to resurface as part of the works but the road painting looks final to me.

What a mess.

[FleetlinePhil]

So I drove on the newly opened ALR part of the M62 and the road surface is terrible! Burn lines everywhere so everything looks a real mess, and potholes galore!

I was under the impression they were going to resurface as part of the works but the road painting looks final to me.

What a mess.

According to the scheme website, resurfacing is planned using overnight closures: http://roads.highways.gov.uk/projects/m ... tion-20-2/

I haven't driven the J20-18 section yet as I've tended to make my trips back to SW Manchester by train of late, in fact I wasn't aware it had been opened until I spotted the new ALR signs when crossing the motorway just S of Castleton.

[Bryn666]

I believe there was a desperate panic to get the 4 lanes open before Christmas. The same mess is visible on M60 J8-10.

That said, other smart motorways have this problem where burned off lines are still visible so don't expect it to be fully removed.

[brummie_rob]

I believe there was a desperate panic to get the 4 lanes open before Christmas. The same mess is visible on M60 J8-10.

That said, other smart motorways have this problem where burned off lines are still visible so don't expect it to be fully removed.

The same happened on M6 J13-10a, they resurfaced the northbound side but Christmas approached and they didn't get the southbound done in time. So they did some quick patching works then resurfaced it fully several months later under overnight closures.

[Jeni]

A month or so late with this one...

[A9NWIL]

A month or so late with this one...

Your brave doing that in the snow! At least it was clear though.

[Truvelo]

The snow in that video is nothing compared to what it's like here.

[nowster]

The fixed 50mph speed limit on the M62 from Simister and Thornton roundabouts was not in force on Easter Sunday evening. There was an NSL indication eastbound and then all the rest of the signs were dark.

[Bryn666]

Yes the same applies to the j8-10 section. Apart from surfacing, they're finished along there.

[DB617]

I believe there was a desperate panic to get the 4 lanes open before Christmas. The same mess is visible on M60 J8-10.

That said, other smart motorways have this problem where burned off lines are still visible so don't expect it to be fully removed.

They need to be bloody careful of this all over the network. The recent Tesla crash in California shows how sensitive self-drive systems currently are to failure due to bad road markings - if the burn marks and remaining markings are too good the autopilot could go completely wrong. Best case I suppose it trips itself off. Sometimes they leave the burn marks there for years - the A48 between Cardiff and Bridgend still has a road-scarring suicide lane.

[KeithW]

I believe there was a desperate panic to get the 4 lanes open before Christmas. The same mess is visible on M60 J8-10.

That said, other smart motorways have this problem where burned off lines are still visible so don't expect it to be fully removed.

They need to be bloody careful of this all over the network. The recent Tesla crash in California shows how sensitive self-drive systems currently are to failure due to bad road markings - if the burn marks and remaining markings are too good the autopilot could go completely wrong. Best case I suppose it trips itself off. Sometimes they leave the burn marks there for years - the A48 between Cardiff and Bridgend still has a road-scarring suicide lane.

Any system that relies on lane markings should not have a name like 'Autopilot' which strongly implies it is an autonomous driving system when clearly it is nothing of the sort. Lots of luck getting your 'Autopilot' to work if there is 3 mm of snow on the road. How any system that is called that can drive into a concrete barrier is beyond comprehension. There again how a software engineer could trust his life to what is at best a beta test system astonishes me.

Here is another Tesla near miss
https://electrek.co/2018/04/02/tesla-fa ... ecreation/

From what I can see the Tesla system is no more capable than the current Ford or Volvo systems which are definitely not marketed as an Autopilot.

[DB617]

Absolutely - I think in time if Tesla is realistic and fair to their customers, they will rename 'Autopilot' as people are prone to ignoring all the many warnings from their beloved upstart vehicle company and just saying "Well it's called autopilot, if it wasn't automatic they wouldn't call it that." I think Musk was way too optimistic about his customer base. However, self-driving is coming in one form or another and it's important that the infrastructure takes that into account in the same way that we in utilities have been adapting to future EV usage since 2010.

[Bryn666]

M60 J18-15 Is now normal width lanes again.

The 50 limit remains and not all gantries have been converted yet. No barrier or lighting works have happened here.

So why the hell have we had four years of TM on this section? Some serious questions need asking about the planning and delivery of this project.

More has happened in six months since Carillion collapsed on this scheme than happened in three years prior. If this sort of glacial progress was representative of them small wonder they're now gone.

[darkcape]

More has happened in six months since Carillion collapsed on this scheme than happened in three years prior. If this sort of glacial progress was representative of them small wonder they're now gone.

There's four other contractors on MSM, and Carillion's Highways business was one of the few profit-making business units for the last year to liquidation.

[M19]

Must be getting paid by the hour than the job, if it's taking that long, eeking a job out and the like.

You could physically build a new motorway in less time. Major sections of motorway destroyed by earthquakes have been restored much more quickly.

We just like things to take forever, cost a fortune and for questionable benefit.

[Owain]

A scary new type of speed camera has popped up on the completed section to the east of M60. A kind of wide yellow box comprising three separate cameras trained on each lane, different from the two separate boxes sitting next to each other that are common on the gantries on other 'smart' motorways. The other day I saw two of them zapping cars when the signage was switched off. I couldn't say how far above NSL the cars were going, because they were on the other carriageway.

When I passed through the whole of the works yesterday nobody got zapped, because from Oldham to Irlam traffic was moving at barely more than walking pace. It took me three hours to get from Leeds to Liverpool Airport .... what joy.

[A9NWIL]

A scary new type of speed camera has popped up on the completed section to the east of M60. A kind of wide yellow box comprising three separate cameras trained on each lane, different from the two separate boxes sitting next to each other that are common on the gantries on other 'smart' motorways. The other day I saw two of them zapping cars when the signage was switched off. I couldn't say how far above NSL the cars were going, because they were on the other carriageway.

When I passed through the whole of the works yesterday nobody got zapped, because from Oldham to Irlam traffic was moving at barely more than walking pace. It took me three hours to get from Leeds to Liverpool Airport .... what joy.

Wow I will have to look out for that next week as I will be staying in Lancashire but popping over to Yorkshire and likely using the M60/M62 route.

[mmlabbd]

Two questions for your expert opinions. As someone who's not au-fait with these things - they don't appear to have included any Refuge Area's on the "Smart Motorway" section of the M60, so have we just waited 4 years for some new gantries? If so, that seems a bit excessive if we aren't going to have Hard Shoulder running.
Secondly, there's now a 50 limit on the westbound approach to the M56 slip road, there is one camera on the M60 and speed limit signs but then no other camera's on the M60 and the limit goes back to NSL after the junction. What is the point of slowing everyone on the M60 down to 50 with only one camera for everyone to speed up again just after the junction. Also I wasn't aware average speed camera's could work using only one camera.

Sorry if this is posted in the wrong thread.
Cheers.