The A30 in Cornwall

[RichardEvans67]

Postby crowntown100 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 14:19

wrinkly wrote:
However they now propose instead to bypass it again.


This has changed a bit after the PRA a couple of months back, but it will mostly bypass it. I'll set up a thread later.

Well as far as I can see, the new dual goes mostly right next to the existing single. So in effect they are just widening the existing corridor a bit more than they would need to if they just dueled the old road.

[crowntown100]

Postby crowntown100 » Tue Oct 10, 2017 14:19

wrinkly wrote:
However they now propose instead to bypass it again.


This has changed a bit after the PRA a couple of months back, but it will mostly bypass it. I'll set up a thread later.

Well as far as I can see, the new dual goes mostly right next to the existing single. So in effect they are just widening the existing corridor a bit more than they would need to if they just dueled the old road.

We didn't say (or mean to suggest) that it was bypassing the corridor. What it is doing is bypassing the current alignment for the most part apart from isolated sections at each end, Chybucca and Zelah.

New thread here, btw: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38170

[RichardEvans67]

Postby crowntown100 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 13:16

We didn't say (or mean to suggest) that it was bypassing the corridor. What it is doing is bypassing the current alignment for the most part apart from isolated sections at each end, Chybucca and Zelah.

New thread here, btw: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38170

I know, I was just pointing out that it's not actually a great deal different from just Dueling the existing bypass.

I'll have a look at the new thread and bookmark it.

Richard.

[jackal]

"Campaigners want to see a new bypass for Crowlas included in the Road Investment Strategy 2 running from 2020 to 2025.

Local MP Derek Thomas is backing the calls from the A30 Crowlas Bypass Now group, to improve the stretch from from St Erth to the Newtown roundabout".

https://www.piratefm.co.uk/news/latest- ... walls-a30/

[crowntown100]

"Campaigners want to see a new bypass for Crowlas included in the Road Investment Strategy 2 running from 2020 to 2025.

Local MP Derek Thomas is backing the calls from the A30 Crowlas Bypass Now group, to improve the stretch from from St Erth to the Newtown roundabout".

https://www.piratefm.co.uk/news/latest- ... walls-a30/

I was only reading about this yesterday. There's a couple of other stories floating around about this one, and there is a thread on here called A30 Crowlas or something to that effect.

The http://crowlasbypassnow.com website is terrible to look at and use, but it does include the 1993 plans to dual this stretch with potential junction designs for St Erth and Newtown Roundabouts. However, without some form of Council funding, I can't see it happening anytime soon.

They are planning some safety work including speed limit reductions and traffic lights at Crowlas Crossroads, but this, as said in the article, isn't scheduled until 2020/21. There is also work going on at St Erth to build a park and ride site at the station so that you can park and catch a train to St Ives or Penzance from there, but we'll see how that works out. This will include traffic lights at the current junction with the A30, and these works are currently underway.

[Richardf]

1993 Blue route looks the most suitable. Interesting to see how it would have tied in at the Hayle end and allow for grade separation.

[RichardEvans67]

I don't know whether or not to get optimistic about it being done soon.

On one hand I heard somewhere that the next round of spending on road improvements was going the be 30bn (twice as much as the last one). I also heard there is a great deal of support and Cornwall Council has intentionally avoid any development on the expected route. Plus it badly needs doing.

On the other hand, I don't want to start counting chickens.

[A303Chris]

Just come back from another great break down in Cornwall and with Chiverton to Carland Cross definitely on the agenda with completion by the end of 2022 the question came in to my mind what happens to the west of Camborne.

The lane drop after the Camborne (West) junction I can see becoming the mother of all queues given this will be when the constant two lane stretch from Exeter will end after nearly 100 miles. Each time a bottle neck has been removed further upstream the queue point has moved further west. For example I never experienced queuing on the westbound approach to Carland Cross until Temple had been resolved.

Especially given the traffic flows west of Camborne do not seem to be affected by summer traffic as other sections of the A30 as a review of Highways England Webtris data has shown for June , July and August this year. The figures below show the difference, where there is one between normal weekday flows and summer Friday / Saturday flows.

A30 Temple circa 40,000 AADT (Friday/Saturday), circa 30,000 AADT (Normal Weekday)
A30 Victoria circa 56,000 AADT (Friday/Saturday), Circa 40,000 AADT (Normal Weekday)
A30 Zennor circa 33,000 AADT (similar both periods)
A30 Connor Downs 28,000 AADT (Similar both periods)

A quick look at hourly flows does show at Connor Downs to be more evenly spread on weekdays then Friday/Saturday, when the lane drop causes issues. What is bizarre is there is a lane drop westbound to S2 + 1 then 800 yards later you are at S2+2, before dropping back to S2 + 1, with eastbound having two lanes all the way from the Connor Downs roundabout to the dual carriageway. My view is would it be beneficial to make the whole of the Connor Downs section S2+2 , to me it does not need to be full D2 as for most of the time it works well, but this would alleviate the lane drop, which causes the issues during peak tourist season.

Bizarrely at Crowlas the flows are circa 26,000 AADT Monday to Friday and only 20,000 on Saturdays which indicates that most of the traffic here is local and not holiday related. After spending 4 days in St Ives and cycling around the area, it does make sense as the number of holiday parks etc are limited past Hayle, St Ives. Therefore given the Hayle bypass in my view works well, does Crowlas need to be dual carriageway and could it be like the Hayle bypass a mixture of S2+1, S2+2 and WSC. The problem between Hayle and Long Rock seems to be the alignment of the A30, the villages with pedestrian crossings and turning vehicles into junctions, driveways etc which cause the congestion more than the actual volume of traffic.

A side point when Carland Cross to Chiverton is finished the gatso after Camborne on the S2+1 section westbound will have a field day, it's bad enough adjusting to 60mph after 9 miles of DC but after for me 260 miles for the M4/M5/A30 doing 60mph will feel like I am crawling. Can see that being a cash cow. Although eastbound on Tuesday the mobile vans were out at Fraddon, Bodmin and Jamaica Inn early afternoon when it was dead, obviously they need the money.

[Vierwielen]

Just come back from another great break down in Cornwall and with Chiverton to Carland Cross definitely on the agenda with completion by the end of 2022 the question came in to my mind what happens to the west of Camborne.

The lane drop after the Camborne (West) junction I can see becoming the mother of all queues given this will be when the constant two lane stretch from Exeter will end after nearly 100 miles. Each time a bottle neck has been removed further upstream the queue point has moved further west. For example I never experienced queuing on the westbound approach to Carland Cross until Temple had been resolved.

... snip

The exact distances are given here. The A30 is 195 km from its start point to Exeter of which 143 km are D2. Unlike most roads that start or end in London, the A30's zero point appears to be somewhere near Land's End.

[nowster]

Looks like Chris hasn't got the Temple­ to Four Winds section in the timeline yet.

[RichardEvans67]

by A303Chris » Thu Oct 18, 2018 14:23

My view is would it be beneficial to make the whole of the Connor Downs section S2+2 , to me it does not need to be full D2 as for most of the time it works well

Surely the over bridges on the Conner Downs bypass are not wide enough for S2+2. So you would need major bridge reconstruction, and if you do that, you might as well make the road a proper D2.

[crowntown100]

Just come back from another great break down in Cornwall and with Chiverton to Carland Cross definitely on the agenda with completion by the end of 2022 the question came in to my mind what happens to the west of Camborne.
...

Good move avoiding the summer peak! This year seemed odd in that the usual influx wasn't as pronounced and seemed to gradually get worse up to the end of July and then plateau, fading away through September, which made it more bearable.

Anyway, A30 west of Camborne. As you say, there is a lot of local traffic between Camborne, Redruth and Pool and Hayle/St Ives and down to Penzance, although I have never been able to entirely figure out why. As I'm sure we're all aware, and I'm sure at some point I will have mentioned it, the A30 here was meant to be dualled after C-P-R bypass was built, but it was watered down to what is now there in the 80's. It is a shame, but it's all we now have. It's not a bad road by any stretch, just overwhelmed.

Loggans Moor, while not the most congested roundabout in the country, or the county even, does get gummed up very quickly all year round, especially at peak time. However, trying to fit a D2 though there is going to be a bit harder than it was 10-15 years ago. I feel that there will also be some induced demand released if Crowlas is bypassed, which it be considering near every other place on the A30 (certainly Penzance to Bodmin) has now been bypassed and is becoming an accident black-spot; with traffic demands showing no sign of decreasing it is unlikely to get any worse, even after the long planned speed reductions along that whole stretch.

[RichardEvans67]

by A303Chris » Thu Oct 18, 2018 14:23

Therefore given the Hayle bypass in my view works well, does Crowlas need to be dual carriageway and could it be like the Hayle bypass a mixture of S2+1, S2+2 and WSC.

My view is that if a Crowlas bypass is built, then it probably shouldn't initially be D2, to avoid making bottlenecks out of the Conner downs and Hayle bypasses. However, if there are the bridges, these should should be built suitable for D2, so that the road could be upgraded in future if it becomes appropriate.

[ROAD ROVER]

I do miss The Hillside Cafe.

[Chris5156]

Looks like Chris hasn't got the Temple­ to Four Winds section in the timeline yet.

Yes he has

[A303Chris]

Good move avoiding the summer peak! This year seemed odd in that the usual influx wasn't as pronounced and seemed to gradually get worse up to the end of July and then plateau, fading away through September, which made it more bearable.

if Crowlas is bypassed, which it be considering near every other place on the A30 (certainly Penzance to Bodmin) has now been bypassed and is becoming an accident black-spot; with traffic demands showing no sign of decreasing it is unlikely to get any worse, even after the long planned speed reductions along that whole stretch.

No I was down at the end of July with the kids at Kennack Sands on the Lizard but came down on Monday 30th July returning on Monday 6th of August. Journey down was fine, A30 little slow, average of 60mph between M5 and the A386 at Sourton Down due to the A38 being closed at South Brent due to an accident and traffic diverting but no problems.

Journey back no so good. Decided a quick visit to Flambards on the way back for a couple to hours to use the weekly pass we had and left at noon, only to find out on Pirate FM that the A30 was closed between Chiverton and Carland Cross due to an accident. That is my preferred way from Helston, B3303 to Camborne then A30 home. So went A394, A39 to Truro and A39 up to Carland. Truro was a nightmare with so much traffic using the A390 to miss the closure then there was a 1 mile slog up to Carland which jammed up given the sheer weight of traffic on the A30. Past that it was fine, took 90 minutes to get from Flambards to Carland a distance of approximately 20 miles. It showed to me how important the A30 Carland to Chiverton is and as existing the slightest issue screws up the whole of Central Cornwall.

Compared to Tuesday 3 hours 55 minutes to do the 275 miles from the harbour car park in Penzance to Woodley just off junction 10 of the M4 absolute pleasure.

Also what are the speed limit reductions in Crowlas, on Tuesday it was still 60mph except 40mph through Crowlas and Canon's Town, are they dropping the 60mph to 50mph and the 40mph to 30mph, although at both 40mph's I was only doing 30mph,

[Dysklyver]

Considering how many delays the dualling of the Temple/Bodmin Moor section caused, I was wondering if it would be worth it.

After they finished it though, it is really nice, new bridges, walls, a massive amount of groundwork that seems to have equated to a really nice verge area and sympathetic treatment of the houses near the road.

Overall it's greatly better and it looked like it has (at least partly) dealt with the endless traffic jams of tourists in the summer.

[RichardEvans67]

by Dysklyver » Sun Oct 21, 2018 13:08

Considering how many delays the dualling of the Temple/Bodmin Moor section caused, I was wondering if it would be worth it.

Actually I think it is rather unfair to talk about the Temple roadworks causing delays. There were already big delays before the scheme, as it was a notorious bottleneck. Apparently the queues were up to 10 miles. The roadworks didn't reduce the number of lanes, and so they didn't make the problems significantly worse. However when people see roadworks and delays, the roadworks often get blamed for the delays.

The Carland to Chiverton section is already congested, and I expect the roadworks for that will also end up getting blamed for the already existing congestion.

[A303Chris]

by Dysklyver » Sun Oct 21, 2018 13:08

Considering how many delays the dualling of the Temple/Bodmin Moor section caused, I was wondering if it would be worth it.

Actually I think it is rather unfair to talk about the Temple roadworks causing delays. There were already big delays before the scheme, as it was a notorious bottleneck. Apparently the queues were up to 10 miles. The roadworks didn't reduce the number of lanes, and so they didn't make the problems significantly worse. However when people see roadworks and delays, the roadworks often get blamed for the delays.

The Carland to Chiverton section is already congested, and I expect the roadworks for that will also end up getting blamed for the already existing congestion.

I was thinking the same, the queues westbound were no different to the preceding 20 plus years following all the upgrades and full DC from the M5 to that point. Eastbound was a lot worse after 2007 when Goss Moor opened and the Fraddon / Indian Queens queues moved 15 miles upstream, but the roadworks made then no worse.

[Norfolktolancashire]

by Dysklyver » Sun Oct 21, 2018 13:08

Considering how many delays the dualling of the Temple/Bodmin Moor section caused, I was wondering if it would be worth it.

Actually I think it is rather unfair to talk about the Temple roadworks causing delays. There were already big delays before the scheme, as it was a notorious bottleneck. Apparently the queues were up to 10 miles. The roadworks didn't reduce the number of lanes, and so they didn't make the problems significantly worse. However when people see roadworks and delays, the roadworks often get blamed for the delays.

The Carland to Chiverton section is already congested, and I expect the roadworks for that will also end up getting blamed for the already existing congestion.

I was thinking the same, the queues westbound were no different to the preceding 20 plus years following all the upgrades and full DC from the M5 to that point. Eastbound was a lot worse after 2007 when Goss Moor opened and the Fraddon / Indian Queens queues moved 15 miles upstream, but the roadworks made then no worse.

When the Temple section was S2 there were few decent diversions westbound. I remember Wadebridge on the A39 being jammed up, along with Camelford and it's narrow high street as traffic came off the A30 just west of Launceston. I tried the (very) minor roads across Bodmin Moor once to avoid the queues, big mistake as vehicles tended to bunch up with only passing spaces for one vehicle each time!

I'm down in Cornwall most months now and have found the Temple D2 a vast improvement, and noticed queues on a summer weekend to Carland roundabout, sometimes this has been aggravated by the steepish climb to it, corresponding slow vehicles and poor driving by overtaking at the last moment of said slow vehicles. There is a lot of traffic Truro bound from there although I tend to use the B road further up from Redruth to Helston avoiding Truro and Falmouth area.

I think I have said before that a link road from the A30 to Falmouth avoiding Truro completely would help.