Upgrading the A66 and A69

[Tom H]

The new 50 limit signs on the Warcop S2 section I mentioned a few months ago are still covered up. Any ideas how long speed limit reductions such as this should take? Seems to be taking a very long time...

[Rob590]

As noted elsewhere, this scheme is likely to proceed as an upgrade to the A66 only - http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... t-12221081

[Helvellyn]

That says dualling 15 miles - presumably that's what's left between Penrith and Scotch Corner, and not other bits?

[Mark Hewitt]

That says dualling 15 miles - presumably that's what's left between Penrith and Scotch Corner, and not other bits?

Yes, Scotch Corner to Penrith completion - which was in the HA plan originally IIRC. It makes sense to at least complete this link as it's the easiest to do.

The A69 could at the very least do with a few more overtaking opportunities as there are long stretches where if you get stuck behind a slow moving vehicle - that's it.

[jackal]

As noted elsewhere, this scheme is likely to proceed as an upgrade to the A66 only - http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... t-12221081

They're making a bit of a fuss about nothing here:

It appeared to contradict a pledge made by former Chancellor George Osborne when he delivered his Budget statement in March this year and told the House of Commons: “We’ll upgrade the A66 and A69 too.”

Some junctions on the A69 are getting upgraded, so they are upgrading the A69.

The eastern end of the A69 has high volumes as it's basically commuter belt for Newcastle. But it's already built to an appropriate standard or close to it. The western end has very low volumes (10k AADF or so), and is of strictly regional as opposed to national importance, so it's easy to see why the A66 is being prioritized.

[Chris5156]

The eastern end of the A69 has high volumes as it's basically commuter belt for Newcastle. But it's already built to an appropriate standard or close to it. The western end has very low volumes (10k AADF or so), and is of strictly regional as opposed to national importance, so it's easy to see why the A66 is being prioritized.

I can see the point of upgrading the A69 in the longer term, but it would be about regional links between Newcastle, Carlisle and Glasgow, and certainly couldn't be done instead of finishing the job on the A66. But one thing the A69 will badly need is a better terminus on the Western Bypass.

[Mark Hewitt]

I can see the point of upgrading the A69 in the longer term, but it would be about regional links between Newcastle, Carlisle and Glasgow, and certainly couldn't be done instead of finishing the job on the A66. But one thing the A69 will badly need is a better terminus on the Western Bypass.

That's the main issue I see with positioning the A69 as a cross country route, in that it starts/ends on the A1 Western bypass, which is heavily congested. So unless you're starting or ending within Newcastle or Gateshead, it's not a good choice.

Even for us, just 5 miles or so south of the A69 junction if we are going to Penrith or South on the M6 then it's quicker for us to use the A66 than the A69 because you don't have to deal with the traffic on the A1.

[djw1981]

I can see the point of upgrading the A69 in the longer term, but it would be about regional links between Newcastle, Carlisle and Glasgow, and certainly couldn't be done instead of finishing the job on the A66. But one thing the A69 will badly need is a better terminus on the Western Bypass.

That's the main issue I see with positioning the A69 as a cross country route, in that it starts/ends on the A1 Western bypass, which is heavily congested. So unless you're starting or ending within Newcastle or Gateshead, it's not a good choice.

Even for us, just 5 miles or so south of the A69 junction if we are going to Penrith or South on the M6 then it's quicker for us to use the A66 than the A69 because you don't have to deal with the traffic on the A1.

Carlisle and north Cumbria s becoming more aligned with Newcastle for healthcare and emergency transfers. I know this is not a key driver for road improvements though.....

[Norfolktolancashire]

That says dualling 15 miles - presumably that's what's left between Penrith and Scotch Corner, and not other bits?

Yes, Scotch Corner to Penrith completion - which was in the HA plan originally IIRC. It makes sense to at least complete this link as it's the easiest to do.

The A69 could at the very least do with a few more overtaking opportunities as there are long stretches where if you get stuck behind a slow moving vehicle - that's it.

The completion of D2 between Penrith and Scotch Corner will make this route even more attractive for long distance traffic, so it can avoid the M62 across the Pennines. It will be a bit like the D2 of the A50 between the M1 and M6 in giving long distance traffic an alternative route avoiding the West Midlands conurbation. As there is a lot of commercial traffic along the M40/M6 between the London area and Scotland, it would make the M1/A1M/A66 attractive instead, so avoiding the West Midlands traffic congestion.

[Glenn A]

While Scotch Corner- Penrith dualling is essential, the section from Workington to Penrith is busy as well. Cumbria County Council about 8 years ago did submit a plan to dual from Bridgefoot to Papcastle, where the road multiplexes with the A595, but this fell through. I'd support this being reinstated and the westbound carriageway of the D2 at Bassenthwaite being rebuilt.
As for the A69, a shame as this is a busy road and the section from Brampton to Greenhead is a slog with 40 mph speed limits in places and sharp bends. I'd definitely convert this section to D2 and by pass Low Row.

[wrinkly]

Stage 3 report now out:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... e-3-report

[owen b]

Stage 3 report now out:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... e-3-report

Interesting. A lot of the text is very repetitive and fairly obvious, but the diagrams and charts are excellent. I particularly liked Figure 1.5: GB Freight Model – HGV Origin/Destination Information for A66, A69 and M62 – Trans-Pennine Screenline, which is three very attractive and detailed maps very visually showing why the A66 across the Pennines is so much more important than the A69.

We've already heard from the Chancellor that the A66 will be dualled and A69 junction improvements A1 to Hexham. From the report there seems to be a fairly strong case for the A6/A66 junction improvement and possibly a Warwick Bridge bypass. Some kind of free flow to/from the A66 / M6 (north facing) and A1(M) (south facing) would be interesting but neither were mentioned and no doubt both would be very expensive.

[wrinkly]

The two roundabouts on the A69 at Hexham and Corbridge designed for future grade separation will now be grade separated, allegedly by 2020:

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/autumn-statement ... north-east

despite the low traffic volumes mentioned in this thread:

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/vie ... 2&p=791245

I imagine the works would be within the existing highway boundary so perhaps therefore no statutory processes required???

[jackal]

The two roundabouts on the A69 at Hexham and Corbridge designed for future grade separation will now be grade separated, allegedly by 2020:

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/autumn-statement ... north-east

despite the low traffic volumes mentioned in this thread:

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/vie ... 2&p=791245

I imagine the works would be within the existing highway boundary so perhaps therefore no statutory processes required???

Volumes are around 25,000AADF here so GSJs seem reasonable.

I'm a little surprised the A69/A6079 roundabout is taking priority over this more obviously substandard junction between the same roads.

I've never heard of a GSJ being built without consultations etc. I suppose it's possible but I wouldn't bet on the junctions being open by 2020.

[Mark Hewitt]

The two roundabouts on the A69 at Hexham and Corbridge designed for future grade separation will now be grade separated, allegedly by 2020:

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/autumn-statement ... north-east

Really? Why? Seems a lot of money to spend, admittedly I've only driven through on weekends, so no idea what it's like at rush hour, but having two cars in front of you there counts as busy, hardly a priority?

[Chris5156]

The two roundabouts on the A69 at Hexham and Corbridge designed for future grade separation will now be grade separated, allegedly by 2020:

http://maps.dft.gov.uk/autumn-statement ... north-east

despite the low traffic volumes mentioned in this thread:

http://www.sabre-roads.org.uk/forum/vie ... 2&p=791245

I imagine the works would be within the existing highway boundary so perhaps therefore no statutory processes required???

That's an incredibly odd announcement. Do we now have so much money for road schemes that we can start building flyovers even in places we don't need them? There must be scores of places laid out for future grade separation more in need of relief than these two junctions.

I would, at the very least, expect that if work needs to be done then signalisation is the normal first step. I don't understand why HE want to go straight to the construction of a flyover without any intermediate steps.

I also don't understand what the western one will achieve - west of there the A69 passes two decidedly substandard at-grade junctions and, about two miles on, reduces to single carriageway for the rest of the journey to Carlisle. The time saving and extra capacity offered by a D2 flyover two miles before the road runs out must be almost zero.

Is this announcement a consolation prize for users of the A69, given that the A66 is the one that will get all the investment?

[Mark Hewitt]

Is this announcement a consolation prize for users of the A69, given that the A66 is the one that will get all the investment?

Yes presumably that's the improvements they were talking about? Incredibly stupid really when that money could be spent on the likes of S2+1 further West.

[jackal]

But is there actually significant congestion to the west given the very low volumes (10-12k)? As I say, the eastern end is around double that, putting it in the range where grade separation is sensible.

There's also the point that on a trunk road like this the long term target is surely expressway, for safety as much as anything. Grade separation or dualling is progress towards that. But from that perspective 2+1 is just an expensive way to tread water.

[Mark Hewitt]

But is there actually significant congestion to the west given the very low volumes (10-12k)? As I say, the eastern end is around double that, putting it in the range where grade separation is sensible.

There's also the point that on a trunk road like this the long term target is surely expressway, for safety as much as anything. Grade separation or dualling is progress towards that. But from that perspective 2+1 is just an expensive way to tread water.

If there was a medium term plan to convert the whole of the A69 to expressway then completing the grade seperation makes sense, as it is there is no such plan so it doesn't really.

[jackal]

But is there actually significant congestion to the west given the very low volumes (10-12k)? As I say, the eastern end is around double that, putting it in the range where grade separation is sensible.

There's also the point that on a trunk road like this the long term target is surely expressway, for safety as much as anything. Grade separation or dualling is progress towards that. But from that perspective 2+1 is just an expensive way to tread water.

If there was a medium term plan to convert the whole of the A69 to expressway then completing the grade seperation makes sense, as it is there is no such plan so it doesn't really.

Actually there are plans of a sort to dual the A69. Not very specific ones, but still enough that I think it would be wasteful to forego the grade separation in favour of 2+1 that is quite likely to be rendered redundant.

http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/nor ... o-12242246