Upgrading the A66 and A69

[Tinpusher]

Can only hope that these sops are there as a kind of 'reminder of what could be' should the infrastructure purse strings be loosened further. "We've got this grade separated D2 that is aching to be extended west...it has no pinch points either so its a win win to extend!"

[tibsy]

Stage 3 report now out:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... e-3-report

Option 3 (or Option 1 as a 2nd choice) would be best for the A69, its the Warwick Bridge bypass that's most needed surely. The other options avoid it and try to force traffic along the A689 which doesn't properly take you to Carlisle and not so useful for heading South on the M6.

Can't understand the point of the A66 to us here in the North East - leading away from the A1, it goes North West but to be useful it needs to go South West or direct West at worst. For most of us in the North East it just takes you back North again.

[Mark Hewitt]

From Chester le Street to Penrith is 100 miles no matter if you choose the A66 or A69 as both take you in the wrong direction to an extent

[owen b]

Can't understand the point of the A66 to us here in the North East - leading away from the A1, it goes North West but to be useful it needs to go South West or direct West at worst. For most of us in the North East it just takes you back North again.

If you're in the north east the A69 isn't overall much better for going south or south west than the A66/A685. If you're south of the Tyneside conurbation, A66/A685 is better for going south west. Improving the A69 for traffic heading south west only helps Tyneside / Northumberland traffic. Even then, if you're heading as far as M62/Liverpool/Manchester, A1(M)/M62 is better. Whereas improving Scotch Corner to Penrith benefits long distance traffic to/from most of County Durham, Yorkshire, East Midlands, East Anglia heading to/from most of Scotland and northern Cumbria, plus County Durham and Teesside traffic heading for much of Lancashire and the rest of Cumbria. Plus there's only about 17 miles of the A66 remaining to be dualled, compared to about 33 miles of the A69 west of Hexham, so much cheaper / better value.

[wrinkly]

From Chester le Street to Penrith is 100 miles no matter if you choose the A66 or A69 as both take you in the wrong direction to an extent

According to Google it's 83 and a bit both ways.

[Mark Hewitt]

From Chester le Street to Penrith is 100 miles no matter if you choose the A66 or A69 as both take you in the wrong direction to an extent

According to Google it's 83 and a bit both ways.

Yes; my mistake I was thinking of Keswick which is 100 miles, but either way you need to go past Penrith and it's the same distance by either route.

[KeithW]

If you're in the north east the A69 isn't overall much better for going south or south west than the A66/A685. If you're south of the Tyneside conurbation, A66/A685 is better for going south west. Improving the A69 for traffic heading south west only helps Tyneside / Northumberland traffic. Even then, if you're heading as far as M62/Liverpool/Manchester, A1(M)/M62 is better. Whereas improving Scotch Corner to Penrith benefits long distance traffic to/from most of County Durham, Yorkshire, East Midlands, East Anglia heading to/from most of Scotland and northern Cumbria, plus County Durham and Teesside traffic heading for much of Lancashire and the rest of Cumbria. Plus there's only about 17 miles of the A66 remaining to be dualled, compared to about 33 miles of the A69 west of Hexham, so much cheaper / better value.

That all depends on where in the North East you are. For anywhere north of the Tyne getting to the A66 is a drag. There is also a fair bit of traffic heading to Stranraer to catch the ferry as well as that headed for Glasgow and the North West. I agree that the A66 is cheaper and needs doing but improvements to the A69 seem worthwhile in themselves.

[Mark Hewitt]

That all depends on where in the North East you are. For anywhere north of the Tyne getting to the A66 is a drag. There is also a fair bit of traffic heading to Stranraer to catch the ferry as well as that headed for Glasgow and the North West. I agree that the A66 is cheaper and needs doing but improvements to the A69 seem worthwhile in themselves.

Yes, and the A66 only makes sense from the North East if your destination is Penrith or South. If it's the likes of Carlisle or anywhere north then the A69 is the only route that makes any sense. But as I said above the main upgrade they could do to help the A69 route is making sure the A1 Western Bypass is free flowing at all times.

[Mark Hewitt]

PS The document linked above said Warwick Bridge is the only part of the (English?) strategic road network with a 30mph limit. Reason enough to bypass it IMV.

[Altnabreac]

PS The document linked above said Warwick Bridge is the only part of the (English?) strategic road network with a 30mph limit. Reason enough to bypass it IMV.

Suspect the easiest way to bypass Warwick Bridge would be to put a couple of south facing slips from the B6264 onto the M6 and send strategic traffic along the A689 instead of the A69. (in fact you'd probably renumber the A689 to A69 as well).

If the presence of the Vallum made that impossible you could take a new route directly from the A689 roundabout to join the M6 just south of the B6264.

[Mark Hewitt]

PS The document linked above said Warwick Bridge is the only part of the (English?) strategic road network with a 30mph limit. Reason enough to bypass it IMV.

Suspect the easiest way to bypass Warwick Bridge would be to put a couple of south facing slips from the B6264 onto the M6 and send strategic traffic along the A689 instead of the A69. (in fact you'd probably renumber the A689 to A69 as well).

Agreed, as the A689 here effectively is a Warwick Bridge bypass, the only problem being being the 4 mile detour the wrong direction it takes to meet the M6 at J44. As you say a some south facing slips on the B6264 and renumber that as the A69. This is the site of where the junction would be https://goo.gl/maps/qMtbY8DoEYk

Would renumbering Warwick Bridge as a B road be sufficient or would you have to put in further restrictions?

[Altnabreac]

PS The document linked above said Warwick Bridge is the only part of the (English?) strategic road network with a 30mph limit. Reason enough to bypass it IMV.

Suspect the easiest way to bypass Warwick Bridge would be to put a couple of south facing slips from the B6264 onto the M6 and send strategic traffic along the A689 instead of the A69. (in fact you'd probably renumber the A689 to A69 as well).

Agreed, as the A689 here effectively is a Warwick Bridge bypass, the only problem being being the 4 mile detour the wrong direction it takes to meet the M6 at J44. As you say a some south facing slips on the B6264 and renumber that as the A69. This is the site of where the junction would be https://goo.gl/maps/qMtbY8DoEYk

Would renumbering Warwick Bridge as a B road be sufficient or would you have to put in further restrictions?

Suspect the important thing would be to get sat navs to think the A689 route was quicker. Question would be whether the A road / B road differential and the 30 limit would offset a slightly longer route to J43A?

[Mark Hewitt]

Suspect the important thing would be to get sat navs to think the A689 route was quicker. Question would be whether the A road / B road differential and the 30 limit would offset a slightly longer route to J43A?

Google Maps shows distance from the A689/A69 junction to be 9 minutes using the A689 and new junction and 10 minutes through Warwick Bridge, but that's just to get to the M6. Overall if your destination is J43 or South then using the new 'bypass' would add 2.3 miles.

[jackal]

PS The document linked above said Warwick Bridge is the only part of the (English?) strategic road network with a 30mph limit.

Hmm

[sotonsteve]

I can think of lots of places on the strategic road network that have a 30mph limit.

Then again, these are on the forgotten trunk roads like the A35, A36 and A259.

[wrinkly]

The latest stakeholder presentation says all the options for both routes provide benefits less than costs, except improving three junctions on the already dualled section of the A69: two where the existing layout provides for grade separation (these are already in the programme) plus the B6531 junction west of Hexham.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ence-group

This would make the existing dualled section of the A69 fully grade separated except for the junction with the northward A6079 (where one of the right turns is banned IIRC) and three very minor junctions east of Corbridge.

[WHBM]

Having been working a bit in Carlisle recently, I am struck by the extent to which they focus on Newcastle rather than Lancashire. Even Edinburgh/Glasgow seems to get more contact than Lancaster and points south.

[jackal]

The latest stakeholder presentation says all the options for both routes provide benefits less than costs, except improving three junctions on the already dualled section of the A69

I can't say I'm too surprised given today's sky high construction costs and the low volumes on both roads.

[Chris Bertram]

Having been working a bit in Carlisle recently, I am struck by the extent to which they focus on Newcastle rather than Lancashire. Even Edinburgh/Glasgow seems to get more contact than Lancaster and points south.

There's a reason why the local BBC service is North East and Cumbria. It's a very long way from Carlisle to Lancaster, with only Penrith and Kendal in between. Head east, and there's a string of villages and small towns on and just off the A69, particularly after you reach Haltwhistle and the Tyne Valley. And Newcastle and its surrounding area is a lot bigger than Lancaster, with a consequent much greater gravitational pull. Plus there are direct rail services from Carlisle to Newcastle (sometimes going further).

[Mark Hewitt]

It’s true to say Carlisle is Newcastle focussed whereas you get to the likes of Kendal that’s more Lancashire focused.