Upgrading the A66 and A69

[Glenn A]

The A7 is mostly quiet between Hawick and Carlisle, and only Auchenrivock and Canonbie have been by passed on safety grounds. It's very unlikely Hawick would be by passed, although there is a by pass of sorts which avoids the town centre, due to the terrain on either side of the town. Langholm again would be difficult to by pass due to the terrain and the volume of traffic isn't heavy enough.

[KeithW]

Dualling the A66 is on the agenda again locally due to the amount of accidents and congestion on S2 sections. I'd also suggest dualling from Cockermouth( Strawberry How roundabout) to Bridgefoot as this section suffers from being a multiplex with the A595 and from farm trailers wanting to use an auction centre next to the A66.
With regard to the A69, full dualling might be too expensive and this isn't as busy as the A66, but suffers from some slow and dangerous S2 sections, and surely by passes of Warwick Bridge and Low Row should be built, with Low Row being D2, and the D2 extended from the western end of Hexham to the Haydon Bridge by pass, with this by pass upgraded to D2.

Locally that is true but there is also a National reason to upgrade the routes.

A66 acts as a national strategic link for long distance journeys between the
south and east of the UK and the north and west of the UK, providing the
most direct east west crossing of the Pennines north of the M62.
➢ A66 and A69 provide regional strategic links between areas east and west of
the Pennines.
➢ A66 and A69 are important links for freight between the east and west coast
ports, with commercial vehicle flows on the A66 greater than 20% of total
flows on most sections of the route.

[KeithW]

I’d be very wary of upgrading a road for the benefit of military convoys. If traffic levels increase that will become a nightmare, as it is on the A34.

I’d suggest a suitable LAR for that.

I have seen no such suggestion, military traffic on the A-66 is generaly localised around the training area at Warcop where the ranges are on one side of the road and the camp on the other.

[1971-Chris]

A66 is one of the few English roads I know well.
Was there not three weeks ago, I couldn’t help but think to myself why such a great portion of a major highway remained so sub-par for so long.
I can well see village frontage posing hindrance for widenings, A66 bisects a fair few small villages. But then, can it really be that arduous to bypass these?

[Glenn A]

A66 is one of the few English roads I know well.
Was there not three weeks ago, I couldn’t help but think to myself why such a great portion of a major highway remained so sub-par for so long.
I can well see village frontage posing hindrance for widenings, A66 bisects a fair few small villages. But then, can it really be that arduous to bypass these?

The main bottleneck is still Kirby Thore, the only settlement on the A66 not to be by passed. This needs a D2 by pass as a priority before the rest of the road is dualled. Also the S2 section past Warcop, where houses are almost on the carriageway in places, needs to be dualled next.

[1971-Chris]

Also the S2 section past Warcop, where houses are almost on the carriageway in places, needs to be dualled next.

In the case of A66, there are instances of houses facing directly onto the D2 sections. Positive I’ve seen that.

[KeithW]

The main bottleneck is still Kirby Thore, the only settlement on the A66 not to be by passed. This needs a D2 by pass as a priority before the rest of the road is dualled. Also the S2 section past Warcop, where houses are almost on the carriageway in places, needs to be dualled next.

The main settlement of Kirkby Thore HAS been bypassed what you see along the A66 is a combination of existing buildings and roadside developments. If you look at a map of 1920 all that was near the road was the Bridge Inn which was much smaller then.

https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/363500 ... /10/101157

[1971-Chris]

It’s been un-bypassed!

[jackal]

Non-statutory consultation starts 14 May and it's big:

Investment of more than a billion pounds in the A66 from Cumbria, through County Durham and into North Yorkshire will move a step closer.

In May, Highways England begins a non-statutory public consultation on ideas to complete the dualling of this important Northern Trans-Pennine route.

The A66 is a strategically important road – a quarter of its 19,000 vehicles a day are lorries – and it provides trans-Pennine connections between the east and west coasts and a primary route connecting the south of England and Scotland.

Highways England is now developing plans to fully dual the remaining six single carriageway sections, which total 18 miles of the complete 50 mile route, in addition to junction improvements to the M6, junction 40 at Penrith and the A1(M) at Scotch Corner. This will provide improved benefits to journey time reliability, safety, network resilience and connectivity for nearby villages and towns.

...

Highways England will present route options for the following sections:

Penrith to Temple Sowerby
Temple Sowerby to Appleby
Appleby to Brough
Bowes
Cross Lanes to Rokeby
Stephen Bank to Carkin Moor

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/cons ... art-in-may

[Mark Hewitt]

Fantastic. Another one that should have been finished years ago. The whole ‘roads of regional significance’ set things back by a decade.

[KeithW]

A66 is one of the few English roads I know well.
Was there not three weeks ago, I couldn’t help but think to myself why such a great portion of a major highway remained so sub-par for so long.
I can well see village frontage posing hindrance for widenings, A66 bisects a fair few small villages. But then, can it really be that arduous to bypass these?

You should have driven it before the D2 section over Bowes Moor and the Greta Bridge, Brough, Appleby and Temple Sowerby bypasses were built

I suspect the the trickiest bit to upgrade will be the area around Warcop which because of the geography has been an significant military region for at least 2000 years. Any upgrade has to thread its way through the current Army ranges, the old Roman Camp and road with of course the Eden Valley Railway also causing its share of headaches. The A66 has been a important route since at least the iron age. One of the earliest battles the Romans fought in Britain was against the Brigantes near Scotch Corner in AD 71 which even then was a strategic meeting of roads. It was the winter road to NW Scotland and Carlisle. The summer road was via Barnard Castle and Teesdale to Alston and that only became an all year road in the 1960's !

The towns and villages which are now seen as an obstruction were what made it usable before the advent of motorised traffic. While on the flat a stagecoach could do 70 miles a day on good roads I suspect that before the advent of McAdam Roads if you were setting out from Scotch Corner you would consider getting to Brough in one day as good progress and in winter you might be happy to settle for the Bowes Moor hotel, which was also the location of a Roman Army marching camp.

[KeithW]

It’s been un-bypassed!

The main village is however some way from the road. Most of what you see is relatively modern. Even the Bridge Inn was closed for a while until the current owners bought it. If the worst comes to pass they can always build a bypass south of Bridge End Farm near the route of the old Eden Valley Railway. That said I suspect with the right incentives the owners of the modern houses south of the road and the businesses to the north could be persuaded to move. which should leave enough space to slot the road in.

[85CF380]

The DfT appear to have a new Traffic Count page which is a lot easier to access - anyway just thought i'd bob the A66 into it. The figures were a surprise. It says traffic figures for previous 8 years were estimates but in 2017 they were counted -
Temple Sowerby's count was 17,500 around 4,000 more than the annual estimated count for the previous years & Stainmore's count was a whopping 23,400 roughly 10,000 more than they had been estimating over the last few years.

[Glenn A]

The A66 west of Penrith saw massive improvements in the seventies, when most of the road was replaced, but has now become inadequate in places. I'd suggest dualling all the way from Bassenthwaite to the Bridgefoot roundabout and seeing if the westbound carriageway of the D2 at Bassenthwaite can be rebuilt as this is now a single lane.

[Euan]

There may be a number of objections from the owners of the various properties along the road, so it could take a while before any serious construction is underway after any public inquiries take place.

[mehere]

All these did have ' project pages' between Liebour and the Tories , one by one they got canned.
As for the last dualled sections.
The one from the A1( M) ( which reading that appears that we will suffer yet more roadworks as they mentioned improvement of that junction as well ) so maybe it might become part or full free flow .

Anyway that first dualled sections is cheap and nasty .
And deadly .
Not to mention all of the ' new sections ' have had part of the dualled bits closed off!.
But the first section has ( past the trees in the middle )!a truly dangerous crossroads, seen so many near misses .
Whomever thought that was safe , that crossover is a death trap and needs closing urgentltly or a GSJ.
The other sections are little better.

As for Kirby Thore, the old plan and the way the alignment finishes and rejoins ,is similar to.the end of the A1(m) at Ferrybridge, it's done on an angle , in order that the bypass carry straight across the current road to the North , going round the village that way.
And rejoining wherever is the next Dualled section.

Really it all needs an Lar. ( Good for when there is an accidebr ) and then ALL private access farm/ home all fenced and closed off with a new LAR built to a good wide standard .

The rest as an expressway , hardshoulders would be a major bonus , as then when a break down or road works in theory you keep two lanes of traffic going at all times.

Reduce some junctions , let the Lar take those , Then Number from The A1(M) as Junction 1 , ideally make it A66(M) in that event ( including beyond the M6).


The A69 , should also be HQDC it's a lot Further North than the A66 and so would benefit a lot of people , there are some sizeable , settlements and Im sure it multiplexes with the A7 /M6 and the local road to Longtown and Gretna .

Again if an Lar was Built and no private accsess it could be another ' Expressway / motorway Candidate.

That if done would need a major junction upgrade where it meets all those roads . And if the A7 is Dualled then they will need to do something.

[KeithW]

As for Kirby Thore, the old plan and the way the alignment finishes and rejoins ,is similar to.the end of the A1(m) at Ferrybridge, it's done on an angle , in order that the bypass carry straight across the current road to the North , going round the village that way.
And rejoining wherever is the next Dualled section.

Really it all needs an Lar. ( Good for when there is an accidebr ) and then ALL private access farm/ home all fenced and closed off with a new LAR built to a good wide standard .

The rest as an expressway , hardshoulders would be a major bonus , as then when a break down or road works in theory you keep two lanes of traffic going at all times.

Lets be realistic here. Kirkby Thore is a small village with a population of around 1500 not a big town and it lies to the north of the A66. Ferrybridge is a small town but that is as far as the similarity goes. It is a major industrial development at the intersection of the M62 and A1(M) and is sandwiched between Knottingley and Pontefract with direct access to the River Aire and the national railway network. It sees more traffic on the A1(M) alone a day than the A66 at Kirkby Thore sees in a week and probably more than accesses the village in a month.

Nobody is likely to build anything other than a decent junction. There are no plans for the A66 to be anything other than an All Purpose Road so no LAR is needed. If the local council wants alternate roads they can widen Priest Lane and Sleastonhow Lane. Your LAR alone would likely absorb more than the entire available budget. Where LAR's do exist on the A66 they are the old A66 where the main line has been straightened as at nearby Crackenthorpe.

[Achmelvic]

As some one who used to live not far off the A66 and who's parents still do, I've seen proposals to complete the dualling announced and subsequently cancelled at least twice before in my life time so I'm not holding my breath here, as welcome as it is that it's at least back in the programme and something appears to be happening.

[jackal]

As for Kirby Thore, the old plan and the way the alignment finishes and rejoins ,is similar to.the end of the A1(m) at Ferrybridge, it's done on an angle , in order that the bypass carry straight across the current road to the North , going round the village that way.
And rejoining wherever is the next Dualled section.

Really it all needs an Lar. ( Good for when there is an accidebr ) and then ALL private access farm/ home all fenced and closed off with a new LAR built to a good wide standard .

The rest as an expressway , hardshoulders would be a major bonus , as then when a break down or road works in theory you keep two lanes of traffic going at all times.

Lets be realistic here. Kirkby Thore is a small village with a population of around 1500 not a big town and it lies to the north of the A66. Ferrybridge is a small town but that is as far as the similarity goes. It is a major industrial development at the intersection of the M62 and A1(M) and is sandwiched between Knottingley and Pontefract with direct access to the River Aire and the national railway network. It sees more traffic on the A1(M) alone a day than the A66 at Kirkby Thore sees in a week and probably more than accesses the village in a month.

Nobody is likely to build anything other than a decent junction. There are no plans for the A66 to be anything other than an All Purpose Road so no LAR is needed. If the local council wants alternate roads they can widen Priest Lane and Sleastonhow Lane. Your LAR alone would likely absorb more than the entire available budget. Where LAR's do exist on the A66 they are the old A66 where the main line has been straightened as at nearby Crackenthorpe.

I'm sure the A66 was on the projected expressways map issued a year or two back, which could be seen as evidence of an ambition for eventual motorway standards. But then the same is true of many sub-expressway standard roads with no specific improvement in the pipeline, and neither the announcement nor scheme page mentions expressway or motorway standards.

I suspect there will actually be de facto LARs on most if not all of the sections they're improving. Kirby Thore is a case in point - they cannot simply widen the existing road and close the many at-grade junctions and accesses. They can either widen online and build an LAR, or (more likely) build an offline bypass and retain the existing road.

Why do the docs not then refer to an expressway or motorway route? Because they're unlikely to provide LARs for the existing dualled sections that lack them.

[KeithW]

I'm sure the A66 was on the projected expressways map issued a year or two back, which could be seen as evidence of an ambition for eventual motorway standards. But then the same is true of many sub-expressway standard roads with no specific improvement in the pipeline, and neither the announcement nor scheme page mentions expressway or motorway standards.

I suspect there will actually be de facto LARs on most if not all of the sections they're improving. Kirby Thore is a case in point - they cannot simply widen the existing road and close the many at-grade junctions and accesses. They can either widen online and build an LAR, or (more likely) build an offline bypass and retain the existing road.

Why do the docs not then refer to an expressway or motorway route? Because they're unlikely to provide LARs for the existing dualled sections that lack them.

As I said up thread one option is to take the new road south of Bridge End Farm and that would be similar to the case of Temple Sowerby but the post I was replying to was calling for new LAR to be built to a high standard and that is highly unlikely to happen. As for closing existing accesses note that this has not happened on the previously dualled sections, many were simply retained.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.52752 ... 6656?hl=en

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.52759 ... 6656?hl=en

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.52385 ... 6656?hl=en

I hope they do find the money to do it but I am not holding my breath in anticipation.