Upgrading the A66 and A69

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thomas417
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by thomas417 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 00:14

The A69 is just less of a strategic route although I agree it should be dualled ASAP.

It's crazy the A66 still hasn't be dualled as it's arguably the main link between the South East and Scotland, this should have been a motorway decades ago. Given this hasn't yet happened, the A69 won't see much investment until we have a complete link between the A1(M) and the M6.

Of course we also have the missing link between Sheffield and Manchester which should also be a priority.

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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by M19 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 00:21

KeithW wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 13:20
solocle wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:00
Well, having stayed at Center Parcs Penrith, getting out of the site involved cycling on the A66. Getting in after a spin through the lakes involved turning right from the A66 (which wasn't exactly fun). Plus this is on the C2C (Coast to Coast) corridor, so it would be well fairly used.
In the case of Center Parcs the easiest solution would be for them to be able to open the gates to the tracks that ran south to Wetheriggs where you can head NW to pick up the A6. I understand they have concerns about unauthorised access but Center Parcs sites always seem to me to be more like a better class of open prison than a place to go on holiday.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.63286 ... 6656?hl=en
Centre Parcs - Never been. Is it like a middle class Butlins?
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by KeithW » Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:48

thomas417 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 00:14
The A69 is just less of a strategic route although I agree it should be dualled ASAP.

It's crazy the A66 still hasn't be dualled as it's arguably the main link between the South East and Scotland, this should have been a motorway decades ago. Given this hasn't yet happened, the A69 won't see much investment until we have a complete link between the A1(M) and the M6.

Of course we also have the missing link between Sheffield and Manchester which should also be a priority.
You will be happy to know that A66 dualling is happening. Dont hold your breath waiting for Sheffield to Manchester, Manchester is a mess anyway when it comes to traffic. Personally the transpennine road I would like to see improved is the A65, for one thing the terrain is easier, bypasses for Ilkley, Gargrave and Hellfield would be a good start.

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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by Fenlander » Sun Jun 07, 2020 14:11

M19 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 00:21
KeithW wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 13:20
solocle wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 12:00
Well, having stayed at Center Parcs Penrith, getting out of the site involved cycling on the A66. Getting in after a spin through the lakes involved turning right from the A66 (which wasn't exactly fun). Plus this is on the C2C (Coast to Coast) corridor, so it would be well fairly used.
In the case of Center Parcs the easiest solution would be for them to be able to open the gates to the tracks that ran south to Wetheriggs where you can head NW to pick up the A6. I understand they have concerns about unauthorised access but Center Parcs sites always seem to me to be more like a better class of open prison than a place to go on holiday.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.63286 ... 6656?hl=en
Centre Parcs - Never been. Is it like a middle class Butlins?
Yes. Probably a bit more sports available at CP too but Butlins usually has the coast too.

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EpicChef
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by EpicChef » Sun Jun 07, 2020 15:56

KeithW wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:48
thomas417 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 00:14
The A69 is just less of a strategic route although I agree it should be dualled ASAP.

It's crazy the A66 still hasn't be dualled as it's arguably the main link between the South East and Scotland, this should have been a motorway decades ago. Given this hasn't yet happened, the A69 won't see much investment until we have a complete link between the A1(M) and the M6.

Of course we also have the missing link between Sheffield and Manchester which should also be a priority.
You will be happy to know that A66 dualling is happening. Dont hold your breath waiting for Sheffield to Manchester, Manchester is a mess anyway when it comes to traffic.
Would it be worth using the M1 and M62 from Sheffield?
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by M19 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 16:32

KeithW wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 13:08
EpicChef wrote:
Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:39
jackal wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 15:26
This is not a price worth paying to get some substandard, quite possibly single carriageway, 'link road' that doesn't go even vaguely in the right direction to relieve existing traffic issues around Darlington. Better to dump it and start planning an actual northern bypass.
I wonder whether this would be a smart motorway... or is it too short?
The final design is underway but I expect it will be a standard D2 bypass. Remember its running between the D2 A66 and the A1(M) at J59 which has barely changed since it was opened in 1965. While a lower cost S2 option has been put in as a lower cost alternative I suspect that given the AADF on that road is already over 20k its unlikely to be selected.
Roads that are built to serve developments should become part of it’s structure as a focal point, balancing place and movement, perhaps as attractive boulevards. Otherwise they just become pretend by-passes, built to DMRB standards, that isolate the new communities they are meant to serve.

Under designed, because they are promoted as link roads or development routes, they become swamped with traffic that use it as a bypass because it looks like a bypass, albeit a poor one because it is a pretend bypass, paid for by developers and the chunk of external funding it was meant to attract.

Roads that are built to be bypasses should be just that - a bypass, not a link road or development route. New developments should not be an opportunity to win funding to build a once intended bypass which has to be watered down to become a development route win that funding. It’s simply moronic and backward planning to create these types of roads that are planned for one purpose and used for another.
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scott125
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by scott125 » Sun Jun 07, 2020 17:17

thomas417 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 00:14
The A69 is just less of a strategic route although I agree it should be dualled ASAP.

It's crazy the A66 still hasn't be dualled as it's arguably the main link between the South East and Scotland, this should have been a motorway decades ago. Given this hasn't yet happened, the A69 won't see much investment until we have a complete link between the A1(M) and the M6.

Of course we also have the missing link between Sheffield and Manchester which should also be a priority.
Always thought the main link was the M1 and M6 .

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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by EpicChef » Sun Jun 07, 2020 17:18

scott125 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 17:17
thomas417 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 00:14
The A69 is just less of a strategic route although I agree it should be dualled ASAP.

It's crazy the A66 still hasn't be dualled as it's arguably the main link between the South East and Scotland, this should have been a motorway decades ago. Given this hasn't yet happened, the A69 won't see much investment until we have a complete link between the A1(M) and the M6.

Of course we also have the missing link between Sheffield and Manchester which should also be a priority.
Always thought the main link was the M1 and M6 .
M6 or M62? I think you're a bit mixed up.
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by KeithW » Sun Jun 07, 2020 18:34

[quote=EpicChef post_id=1124182 time=1591541785 user_id=10841
Would it be worth using the M1 and M62 from Sheffield?
[/quote]

It would not be my route of choice having spent long periods crawling along the M62, M60 and M61. In fact from Sheffield the quickest route is usually M1, A1(M) and A66 but if the weather was decent I would be tempted to to take the A57 over the Snake pass to the M60 at J24 just because its such a nice drive.

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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by Glenn A » Sun Jun 07, 2020 19:43

thomas417 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 00:14
The A69 is just less of a strategic route although I agree it should be dualled ASAP.

It's crazy the A66 still hasn't be dualled as it's arguably the main link between the South East and Scotland, this should have been a motorway decades ago. Given this hasn't yet happened, the A69 won't see much investment until we have a complete link between the A1(M) and the M6.

Of course we also have the missing link between Sheffield and Manchester which should also be a priority.
The A69 does carry a large amount of traffic and is the principal link between Tyneside, Cumbria and SW Scotland. Also the stretch from Greenhead to Brampton is quite dangerous and has several sharp bends and a 40 mph section through Low Row. I've argued for years this should be replaced by a D2.

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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by thomas417 » Mon Jun 08, 2020 20:20

Glenn A wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 19:43
thomas417 wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 00:14
The A69 is just less of a strategic route although I agree it should be dualled ASAP.

It's crazy the A66 still hasn't be dualled as it's arguably the main link between the South East and Scotland, this should have been a motorway decades ago. Given this hasn't yet happened, the A69 won't see much investment until we have a complete link between the A1(M) and the M6.

Of course we also have the missing link between Sheffield and Manchester which should also be a priority.
The A69 does carry a large amount of traffic and is the principal link between Tyneside, Cumbria and SW Scotland. Also the stretch from Greenhead to Brampton is quite dangerous and has several sharp bends and a 40 mph section through Low Row. I've argued for years this should be replaced by a D2.
I agree, the East-West routes in the north of England really are shocking and should all have been dualled a long time ago. Of the 5 key east/west routes - A69, A66, A65, M62 and (what should be) M67 only 1 of these is up to par.

However due to the importance nationally of the A66, and as a lot of the route being already dualled, it's no surprise this is going to get the investment before the A69.

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the cheesecake man
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by the cheesecake man » Mon Jun 08, 2020 21:53

KeithW wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 18:34
EpicChef wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 15:56
Would it be worth using the M1 and M62 from Sheffield?
It would not be my route of choice having spent long periods crawling along the M62, M60 and M61. In fact from Sheffield the quickest route is usually M1, A1(M) and A66 but if the weather was decent I would be tempted to to take the A57 over the Snake pass to the M60 at J24 just because its such a nice drive.
It depends when you're going and where you're starting from.

Starting from western Sheffield I can be across the Pennines in Glossop in 40 minutes, by which time I'd still be heading in the wrong direction and perhaps only just reaching the M1. So I'd rarely do anything else except in bad weather.

If you need to add in crossing Sheffield it changes the picture massively in favour of Woodhead Pass.

M1 - M62 can be attractive if you're well clear of the Leeds rush hour, are driving something fast and don't care about distance or fuel consumption.

If you're starting further south A50 or A6 may also be options worth considering.

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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by ForestChav » Mon Jun 08, 2020 22:09

the cheesecake man wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 21:53
KeithW wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 18:34
EpicChef wrote:
Sun Jun 07, 2020 15:56
Would it be worth using the M1 and M62 from Sheffield?
It would not be my route of choice having spent long periods crawling along the M62, M60 and M61. In fact from Sheffield the quickest route is usually M1, A1(M) and A66 but if the weather was decent I would be tempted to to take the A57 over the Snake pass to the M60 at J24 just because its such a nice drive.
It depends when you're going and where you're starting from.

Starting from western Sheffield I can be across the Pennines in Glossop in 40 minutes, by which time I'd still be heading in the wrong direction and perhaps only just reaching the M1. So I'd rarely do anything else except in bad weather.

If you need to add in crossing Sheffield it changes the picture massively in favour of Woodhead Pass.

M1 - M62 can be attractive if you're well clear of the Leeds rush hour, are driving something fast and don't care about distance or fuel consumption.

If you're starting further south A50 or A6 may also be options worth considering.
A6? No way, it isn't even the fastest way from Cromford to Buxton (A5012 and A515 is). Though it's pretty scenic and ofc plenty of good stopping points in Matlock, Bakewell, etc etc, and not too far away Monsal, Chatsworth, Youlgreave.

The problem with the A50 is that lovely dual carriageway dumps you on the Stoke inner ring road. So all the long distance M1-M6 traffic ends up mixed in with all the local traffic. It's tempting to turn left to the M6, but in fact that usually takes longer on the motorway. Sadly, there doesn't seem to be an obvious way around that.
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by the cheesecake man » Mon Jun 08, 2020 22:29

ForestChav wrote:
Mon Jun 08, 2020 22:09

A6? No way, it isn't even the fastest way from Cromford to Buxton (A5012 and A515 is). Though it's pretty scenic and ofc plenty of good stopping points in Matlock, Bakewell, etc etc, and not too far away Monsal, Chatsworth, Youlgreave.
Perhaps not from Nottingham or Derby, but from Chesterfield A619-A6 to join the M60 at Stockport?

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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by jackal » Tue Nov 10, 2020 09:06

There will be an A66 update on Monday. They plan to consult in the spring.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/what ... g-progress

According to the RIS2 delivery plan construction should start in 2024-25.

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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by A303Chris » Tue Nov 10, 2020 09:25

jackal wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 09:06
There will be an A66 update on Monday. They plan to consult in the spring.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/what ... g-progress

According to the RIS2 delivery plan construction should start in 2024-25.
You beat me to it, was going to post the same thing. Think saying improving access to Felixstowe is pushing it a bit, unless they think HGV's will go A14, A1, A66 instead of A14 / M6
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by KeithW » Tue Nov 10, 2020 13:55

A303Chris wrote:
Tue Nov 10, 2020 09:25

You beat me to it, was going to post the same thing. Think saying improving access to Felixstowe is pushing it a bit, unless they think HGV's will go A14, A1, A66 instead of A14 / M6
Well to be fair they did actually state that it would improve connections between ports in Scotland and Northern Ireland and those in England at Hull and Felixstowe. If I were driving from Hull or Felixstowe to Cairnryan my route of choice would be A1, A66, M6, A74

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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by NICK 647063 » Wed Nov 11, 2020 20:34

You beat me to it, was going to post the same thing. Think saying improving access to Felixstowe is pushing it a bit, unless they think HGV's will go A14, A1, A66 instead of A14 / M6
I’ve just put Felixstowe to Glasgow out of interest in google maps and it give the fastest, shortest route and that is via the A14, A1 and A66 route, the A66 is a major freight route and needs this upgrade, even looking on a map the A66 is the most direct link.

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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by ForestChav » Wed Nov 11, 2020 22:13

NICK 647063 wrote:
Wed Nov 11, 2020 20:34
You beat me to it, was going to post the same thing. Think saying improving access to Felixstowe is pushing it a bit, unless they think HGV's will go A14, A1, A66 instead of A14 / M6
I’ve just put Felixstowe to Glasgow out of interest in google maps and it give the fastest, shortest route and that is via the A14, A1 and A66 route, the A66 is a major freight route and needs this upgrade, even looking on a map the A66 is the most direct link.
They need to improve the A1 south of the M62 as well. As soon as you come out of the motorway section heading south the quality drops noticeably. Pretty much all of the islands have gone until the A14 turns off but most of it until Peterborough is still largely unimproved D2 with the odd right hand exit and a few tight slip roads. If it's bad form to make it motorway adding the extra lane and making it all LILO would presumably do.

But yes, the M6 route perhaps is less direct as well as having all the traffic to get around the likes of Birmingham, Coventry, Stoke, Manchester, Liverpool, Preston, Bolton and surrounding areas before it can head through to Scotland. The A1 notably avoids most population centres of any size near it (Nottingham, Peterborough, Leeds, York, Lincoln) and even those it bypasses aren't too big (Newark, Grantham, Retford, Doncaster) so has less of an issue. Some of those are arguably better served by the M1, too, though this depends where you're going.

But if you're looking at the SE ports (Not just Felixstowe, the same would hold for Kent too) linking to Scotland improving the A66 isn't going to be the whole solution. The newer dualled A-roads (A14, but also the new stretches of A453 and A46) are pretty high quality, so even plugging the gaps on the A66 would not necessarily be the most benefit.
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Re: Upgrading the A66 and A69

Post by MFB » Thu Nov 12, 2020 08:41

Any update on the A69 Hexham Bridge End roundabout upgrade? A nice example of future proofing finally coming good!

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