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As HGV's cannot use the A685 through Kirkby Stephen, I would guess that HGV drivers will be advised to use the M6 to Junction 43 then the A69 to the A1.
Robert Kilcoyne wrote: ↑Sat Aug 04, 2018 13:32
As HGV's cannot use the A685 through Kirkby Stephen, I would guess that HGV drivers will be advised to use the M6 to Junction 43 then the A69 to the A1.
Or the M62 if they are starting south of Manchester.
Dualling the A66 is on the agenda again locally due to the amount of accidents and congestion on S2 sections. I'd also suggest dualling from Cockermouth( Strawberry How roundabout) to Bridgefoot as this section suffers from being a multiplex with the A595 and from farm trailers wanting to use an auction centre next to the A66.
With regard to the A69, full dualling might be too expensive and this isn't as busy as the A66, but suffers from some slow and dangerous S2 sections, and surely by passes of Warwick Bridge and Low Row should be built, with Low Row being D2, and the D2 extended from the western end of Hexham to the Haydon Bridge by pass, with this by pass upgraded to D2.
That is a very nasty T junction just past the end of the D2 Temple Sowerby bypass. Traffic coming out of Centre Parcs and heading eastbound has to turn right across a section of road where vehicles are moving at high speed. The sight lines are pretty good but people get frustrated and take chances.
That is a very nasty T junction just past the end of the D2 Temple Sowerby bypass. Traffic coming out of Centre Parcs and heading eastbound has to turn right across a section of road where vehicles are moving at high speed. The sight lines are pretty good but people get frustrated and take chances.
I had a cycling weekend staying south of Scotch Corner recently. I wanted to get up to my childhood haunts in Teesdale and Weardale, and realised that the A66 is quite a barrier for non-motorised traffic. Between Scotch Corner and Bowes so far as I can tell there is only grade separated crossing of the A66, and that's only a bridleway at Thorpe Farm east of Greta Bridge which I wasn't sure was suitable for road bikes. In the end we took our chances on a busy summer Saturday and legged it across the main road at Rokeby Grove (just west of Greta Bridge) one way and on the B6274 the other way. Not great .
Why has the A66 Scotch Corner -Penrith road been preferred to the A69 Newcastle - Carlisle road?
Before the war the Semi-Official Association of County Surveyors, the British Roads Federation and various other bodies produced maps of what Motorways they would like to be built and broadly those ideas were built after the war. The thinking was mostly guided by thinking that seems plain enough today. There are personal touches, for example, James Drake, County Surveyor (and “Bridgemaster”, you don’t get many of them nowadays!) of Lancashire County Council was a great enthusiast for motorways, even today roads which would be built as “A” road elsewhere are built as Motorways in Lancashire. The Preston by-pass and its development into the M6 which runs North - South through Lancashire are his work. In those days, the County of Westmoreland occupied most of the land which the M6 now runs through. Did this have any effect ? I don’t know, but I mention it for completeness.
The proposed motorway route went to Newcastle, a major centre on any reckoning. And why not on to Edinburgh along the east coast? There are no difficult gradients that way as there are along the west side. Some drafts planned a route both sides, but maybe it was felt that the traffic could not support two routes to Scotland, it is suggested that the west side to was preferred because of Glasgow’s industrial traffic, though it is not clear that Liverpool+ Manchester +Glasgow is greater than Edinburgh + Newcastle + Middlesbrough + Leeds.
Even then there was thought of war with Germany. Would a good road along the coast be more help to the attackers than the defenders? Is a German attack so far north really to be expected?
Even within the choice of a west route as against an east coast route, strange choices have been made Why has the A66 Scotch Corner -Penrith road been preferred to the A69 Newcastle - Carlisle road? The A66 Scotch Corner -Penrith route goes over high ground and snow is a real problem in winter, much worse than the A69 Newcastle - Carlisle road. And it has worse connectivity. A route Newcastle-Carlisle would give Newcastle connection to Glasgow, if that’s thought important. Is putting Newcastle on the stump end of a road to anybody’s benefit? Surely not!
Governments can’t help doing thing which will benefit some and disadvantage others, they are supposed to do whatever creates the greatest total benefit for all. Such care is not expected of private bodies. Who can have wanted to disadvantage Newcastle?
Beaverbell wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 22:02
Why has the A66 Scotch Corner -Penrith road been preferred to the A69 Newcastle - Carlisle road?
An upgraded A69 benefits Tyneside/Wearside to/from Glasgow traffic, and not much else in terms of strategic traffic between major centres of population.
An upgraded A66 (Scotch Corner to Penrith section) benefits traffic to/from the whole of the eastern side of England (from County Durham south) to/from virtually all of Scotland.
Beaverbell wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 22:02
Why has the A66 Scotch Corner -Penrith road been preferred to the A69 Newcastle - Carlisle road?
An upgraded A69 benefits Tyneside/Wearside to/from Glasgow traffic, and not much else in terms of strategic traffic between major centres of population.
An upgraded A66 (Scotch Corner to Penrith section) benefits traffic to/from the whole of the eastern side of England (from County Durham south) to/from virtually all of Scotland.
Plus let’s remember that Edinburgh is West of Carlisle. Either the A7 or A702 should have been motorway/DC
Mark Hewitt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 07:16
Plus let’s remember that Edinburgh is West of Carlisle. Either the A7 or A702 should have been motorway/DC
At the very least the new bypasses built should have been D2 and the section between Galashiels and Edinburgh is very slow and congested. There are still far too many major places that have not been bypassed (Galashiels, Langholm and Hawick for example). Hawick to Carlisle is challenging due to the terrain but again there a major opportunity was lost when the bypass in the Canonbie area was built as S2. As I recall the only D2 section is south of the border into Carlisle.
As it is my favoured route heading for Edinbugh is the A68, which while S2 offers opportunities of overtaking and which is a pretty quick route. The only major town you go through is Jedburgh and that is both very easy to get through and agood place to make a pitstop with its large free car park food outlets and toilets just off the road.
I use the A66 and occasionally A69 (in winter) when heading for the A82 and Western Highlands or for Inverness when I head up the M74, M8 and M80 to Stirling and the A9. Its usually quicker and far less hassle than the A720 and Forth Crossing
Mark Hewitt wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 07:16
Plus let’s remember that Edinburgh is West of Carlisle. Either the A7 or A702 should have been motorway/DC
At the very least the new bypasses built should have been D2 and the section between Galashiels and Edinburgh is very slow and congested. There are still far too many major places that have not been bypassed (Galashiels, Langholm and Hawick for example). Hawick to Carlisle is challenging due to the terrain but again there a major opportunity was lost when the bypass in the Canonbie area was built as S2. As I recall the only D2 section is south of the border into Carlisle.
As it is my favoured route heading for Edinbugh is the A68, which while S2 offers opportunities of overtaking and which is a pretty quick route. The only major town you go through is Jedburgh and that is both very easy to get through and agood place to make a pitstop with its large free car park food outlets and toilets just off the road.
I use the A66 and occasionally A69 (in winter) when heading for the A82 and Western Highlands or for Inverness when I head up the M74, M8 and M80 to Stirling and the A9. Its usually quicker and far less hassle than the A720 and Forth Crossing
I would agree with your point about the A7 north of Galashiels; the road becomes quite congested as it enters the outskirts of the Edinburgh urban area at Gorebridge yet you are still more than five miles from Sheriffhall. The streets in Galashiels town centre are also quite narrow in places and it is no surprise therefore that the A7 was downgraded to non-primary between Tweedbank and Sheriffhall once the Dalkeith bypass was built. While it is longer in terms of miles to travel via the A68 and A698 from Edinburgh to Hawick, I found that it was quicker than using the A7 and having therefore to go through Galashiels and Selkirk.
Ideally, the A7 would include bypasses of Hawick and Langholm, but the very hilly landscape around both towns would make building a good S2 quite expensive, particularly for Langholm, and the figures for daily traffic on the A7 between Hawick and Carlisle may not justify the cost.
You are correct that the only sections of D2 on the A7 are in England, namely the few hundred yards between M6 Junction 44 and the traffic lights at the junction of Kingstown Road and Parkhouse Road, and on Georgian Way between Hardwicke Circus and the turnoff for the A69 at Victoria Place in Carlisle city centre.
Robert Kilcoyne wrote: ↑Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:55
The streets in Galashiels town centre are also quite narrow in places and it is no surprise therefore that the A7 was downgraded to non-primary between Tweedbank and Sheriffhall once the Dalkeith bypass was built.
The A7 was detrunked between the Kingsknowes and Sheriffhall roundabouts in 1996.
Dalkeith eastern bypass opened in 2008, 12 years later.
The A7 passes through Galashiels on a relief road built in several phases and finally finished in 2012.
Beaverbell wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 22:02
Why has the A66 Scotch Corner -Penrith road been preferred to the A69 Newcastle - Carlisle road?
An upgraded A69 benefits Tyneside/Wearside to/from Glasgow traffic, and not much else in terms of strategic traffic between major centres of population.
An upgraded A66 (Scotch Corner to Penrith section) benefits traffic to/from the whole of the eastern side of England (from County Durham south) to/from virtually all of Scotland.
Plus let’s remember that Edinburgh is West of Carlisle. Either the A7 or A702 should have been motorway/DC
A702 should be at the least DC, personally I think motorway
owen b wrote:
An upgraded A69 benefits Tyneside/Wearside to/from Glasgow traffic, and not much else in terms of strategic traffic between major centres of population.
An upgraded A66 (Scotch Corner to Penrith section) benefits traffic to/from the whole of the eastern side of England (from County Durham south) to/from virtually all of Scotland.
Plus let’s remember that Edinburgh is West of Carlisle. Either the A7 or A702 should have been motorway/DC
A702 should be at the least DC, personally I think motorway
Beaverbell wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 22:02
Why has the A66 Scotch Corner -Penrith road been preferred to the A69 Newcastle - Carlisle road?
An upgraded A69 benefits Tyneside/Wearside to/from Glasgow traffic, and not much else in terms of strategic traffic between major centres of population.
An upgraded A66 (Scotch Corner to Penrith section) benefits traffic to/from the whole of the eastern side of England (from County Durham south) to/from virtually all of Scotland.
It also benefits the industry of West Cumbria and tourist traffic to the Lake District from the East.
A D2 link road from, say, the A1(M) at Darlington to Greta Bridge on the A66 would further it's use for NE England.
Beaverbell wrote: ↑Tue Aug 14, 2018 22:02
Why has the A66 Scotch Corner -Penrith road been preferred to the A69 Newcastle - Carlisle road?
An upgraded A69 benefits Tyneside/Wearside to/from Glasgow traffic, and not much else in terms of strategic traffic between major centres of population.
An upgraded A66 (Scotch Corner to Penrith section) benefits traffic to/from the whole of the eastern side of England (from County Durham south) to/from virtually all of Scotland.
One third of traffic on the A66 is HGVs, and there is the added hazard of military vehicles. Also there are some S2 sections of the A66 where properties are so close to the road that they have been hit by HGVs. ( I can think of a cottage near Warcop that backs on to the carriageway).
I’d be very wary of upgrading a road for the benefit of military convoys. If traffic levels increase that will become a nightmare, as it is on the A34.
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