Complete Scotland's roads....

[Owain]

Dual A75 at least as far as the existing short stretch of D2 west of Dumfries.

I wonder if a solution to both the A75 and the A701 would be a new D2, grade separated route from Dumfries to the A74(M) around junction 18 at Lockerbie.

This would remove the long distance traffic from the A75, provide a faster connection from Dumfries to Edinburgh and improve access to the West Coast Main Line at Lockerbie. Especially if the cross border High Speed Rail plans go ahead, better access to Lockerbie station could be very useful for the rest of Dumfries and Galloway.

I don't know that you really need a new road. Upgrading the A709 with bypasses for Torthorwald and Lochmaben would seem to answer the issue of traffic to Glasgow. I don't know that traffic levels would really justify a grade separated D2 but Lochmaben really needs a bypass. However lot of A75 traffic is from the West Midlands and England so improvements to the A75 might still be needed.

The newly-dualled A8 on the N. Irish side puts both the A75 and A77 to shame. It's built to a very high standard (or seems to be; I'm not an engineer).

[jackal]

If you look at the AADFs the most pressing schemes not in the programme are the likes of these:

M8 widening - D4M or better between A741 (J27) and M77, and between M80 and M73
M8/M73 Baillieston improvement - add freeflow slips for M73(S)<->M8(E), make this the signed route for Glasgow airport<->Edinburgh
M77 widening - D3M between M8 and A727 (J3)
A82 Milton to Bowling improvement - grade separate major junctions and close reserve gaps
A77 Ayr improvement - widen S2 sections of bypass and grade separate Dutch House roundabout
A720 City of Edinburgh bypass improvement - extend to A90, freeflow Hermiston Gait, and widen to D3 as far as A701
A92 Red House improvement - grade separate roundabout
M9 Keir improvement - grade separate roundabout
M90/A9 Broxden improvement - grade separate roundabout
A90 Dundee bypass

Obviously the government doesn't have much time for 'facts' or 'fairness', hence they're spending billions on dualling and grade separating the A9 and A96, largely <10,000AADF country roads that happen to be in the 'right' part of the country, in preference to roads that significant numbers of people actually use like the 35,000AADF S2 Ayr bypass.

[Altnabreac]

If you look at the AADFs the most pressing schemes not in the programme are the likes of these:

M8 widening - D4M or better between A741 (J27) and M77, and between M80 and M73
M8/M73 Baillieston improvement - add freeflow slips for M73(S)<->M8(E), make this the signed route for Glasgow airport<->Edinburgh
M77 widening - D3M between M8 and A727 (J3)
A82 Milton to Bowling improvement - grade separate major junctions and close reserve gaps
A77 Ayr improvement - widen S2 sections of bypass and grade separate Dutch House roundabout
A720 City of Edinburgh bypass improvement - extend to A90, freeflow Hermiston Gait, and widen to D3 as far as A701
A92 Red House improvement - grade separate roundabout
M9 Keir improvement - grade separate roundabout
M90/A9 Broxden improvement - grade separate roundabout
A90 Dundee bypass

Obviously the government doesn't have much time for 'facts' or 'fairness', hence they're spending billions on dualling and grade separating the A9 and A96, largely <10,000AADF country roads that happen to be in the 'right' part of the country, in preference to roads that significant numbers of people actually use like the 35,000AADF S2 Ayr bypass.

Most of these seem reasonable but a couple of observations.

M77 most of the problem is between J2 and J1. Southbound a 3rd lane between J1 and J2 would solve most of the problems in PM peak, Northbound a 3rd lane would be useful from J2 right to the M8.

For Glasgow Airport - M74 - M8 traffic I suspect that the A725 might become the preferred route once the M8 completion works are complete. I'll reserve judgment on whether Baillieston freeflow is needed until we see how the widened M73 operates. I suspect 4 lanes here will solve a lot of the problems and freeflow is a nice to have but not essential if the queues are sorted by the widening.

Equally I think the City Deal works on Stewartfield Way, plus grade separation of Raith Interchange will persuade a lot of Ayrshire - Edinburgh (and even south Glasgow - Edinburgh) traffic to divert to the Southern Orbital - A725 route. I think we need to wait and see what the outcome of all the current M8 works are before we look at what needs doing next.

My feeling is that the overwhelming issue will become M8 D3 widening from J6 - Hermiston Gait. Fairly sure it will be needed sooner rather than later.

Not sure you need D4M on the M8 between M80 and M73, never noticed any huge delays along that section really.

[jackal]

If you look at the AADFs the most pressing schemes not in the programme are the likes of these:

M8 widening - D4M or better between A741 (J27) and M77, and between M80 and M73
M8/M73 Baillieston improvement - add freeflow slips for M73(S)<->M8(E), make this the signed route for Glasgow airport<->Edinburgh
M77 widening - D3M between M8 and A727 (J3)
A82 Milton to Bowling improvement - grade separate major junctions and close reserve gaps
A77 Ayr improvement - widen S2 sections of bypass and grade separate Dutch House roundabout
A720 City of Edinburgh bypass improvement - extend to A90, freeflow Hermiston Gait, and widen to D3 as far as A701
A92 Red House improvement - grade separate roundabout
M9 Keir improvement - grade separate roundabout
M90/A9 Broxden improvement - grade separate roundabout
A90 Dundee bypass

Obviously the government doesn't have much time for 'facts' or 'fairness', hence they're spending billions on dualling and grade separating the A9 and A96, largely <10,000AADF country roads that happen to be in the 'right' part of the country, in preference to roads that significant numbers of people actually use like the 35,000AADF S2 Ayr bypass.

Most of these seem reasonable but a couple of observations.

M77 most of the problem is between J2 and J1. Southbound a 3rd lane between J1 and J2 would solve most of the problems in PM peak, Northbound a 3rd lane would be useful from J2 right to the M8.

For Glasgow Airport - M74 - M8 traffic I suspect that the A725 might become the preferred route once the M8 completion works are complete. I'll reserve judgment on whether Baillieston freeflow is needed until we see how the widened M73 operates. I suspect 4 lanes here will solve a lot of the problems and freeflow is a nice to have but not essential if the queues are sorted by the widening.

Equally I think the City Deal works on Stewartfield Way, plus grade separation of Raith Interchange will persuade a lot of Ayrshire - Edinburgh (and even south Glasgow - Edinburgh) traffic to divert to the Southern Orbital - A725 route. I think we need to wait and see what the outcome of all the current M8 works are before we look at what needs doing next.

My feeling is that the overwhelming issue will become M8 D3 widening from J6 - Hermiston Gait. Fairly sure it will be needed sooner rather than later.

Not sure you need D4M on the M8 between M80 and M73, never noticed any huge delays along that section really.

I was using 70,000 AADF or thereabouts as a rough threshold for widening D2/D2M and 100,000 AADF for D3M. Yes, there are other factors to take into account, like junction spacing, so you could argue for widening some sections (e.g. M9 northbound between the M8 and A8) that wouldn't quite hit those thresholds. But I was trying to avoid a subjective assessment of 'it seems like there is/isn't lots of delays here'. That's precisely how terrible value for money projects like the A9 and A96 get put to the front of the queue.

M77 volumes look the same either side of J2.

I can't really see the A725 becoming a viable option for significant amounts of Airport-M74-M8 traffic, it's too indirect and substandard. If it is to be the signed route between Edinburgh and a big chunk of Glasgow it certainly can't use roundabouts or even the loop at the upgraded M8/A725 junction.

Stewartfield Way will still have seven roundabouts along it so it still won't really be a viable long distance route. You could certainly make an argument for grade separating those roundabouts.

The M8 between Hermiston Gait and Newbridge is mostly 10,000-20,0000 AADF lower than the roads I suggested for widening like the M77 and A720, though the Eastern end (up to J3) does get towards 65,000. So with some induced traffic from the M8 completion that bit at least would be in the ballpark of needing widening.

Finally, the M80-M73 bit of M8 is generally around 110,000AADT, which is busy enough that it does not flow freely for much of the day. This is one of the busiest stretches of roads in a country that apparently has billions to spend on upgrades so this should be a high priority.

[exiled]

Finally, the M80-M73 bit of M8 is generally around 110,000AADT, which is busy enough that it does not flow freely for much of the day. This is one of the busiest stretches of roads in a country that apparently has billions to spend on upgrades so this should be a high priority.

The EB flow is dictated by conditions on the M73 rather than the M8/A8, hopefully this will eleviate partly when the works complete.

[Glenn A]

I'd definitely make the A75 from Dumfries to Gretna D2, as this is the busiest section of the road. Also there is a case for by passing the remaining settlements to the west of Dumfries that have been missed.

[clc]

I haven't driven the A75 often and the last time was a few years ago but I recall there was a very twisty section, maybe 5-6 miles long, which clearly hadn't been upgraded. I'm not sure exactly where it was but it was well east of Dunragit. I'd upgrade that section to WS2+1.

[Northern Lights]

As someone who has to use the A9 & the A96 quite a lot I will stand up for the Scottish Gov. in actually dualing those (A9 Perth Inverness, & A96 Inverness to Aberdeen)roads which they & others have talked about doing for over 30yrs!

Can't wait for them to be completed, as they are an awful mix of all speed limits over s2/d2 etc. Some of the small towns are a right nightmare & last year one on the A96 was causing a bottleneck of 1hr for 4miles whilst you drive through (this bottle neck is getting worse every year)! So then people just the back roads which are narrow "B" roads, not clever as they turn into rat runs.

A0 is better now they have the average sped cameras on it, but it still causes problems, but an improvement was Tesco moving most of their trucks into the rail upto Inverness dept (Stobart rail) so no long lines of Tesco trucks for the north trundling up the A9.

TBO I just wish that all the Govs would spend the approx. £3Billion that is required to bring our UK roads upto the standards that they are supposed to be at.

It's bad enough that we have main "A" roads up here which are not even S2 grade!, but single with passing places.. ..& there's me thinking this was the 21st century!

[Arcuarius]

It's bad enough that we have main "A" roads up here which are not even S2 grade!, but single with passing places.. ..& there's me thinking this was the 21st century!

21st century it may be but if they only have a few cars a day using it why bother?

[Northern Lights]

It's bad enough that we have main "A" roads up here which are not even S2 grade!, but single with passing places.. ..& there's me thinking this was the 21st century!

21st century it may be but if they only have a few cars a day using it why bother?

Those roads which are S1 grade main "A" are getting busier each year & are hell in summer with holiday people. Also you obviously you don't drive the A9/A96 at the peak periods on a day to day basis otherwise you would notice that it is more than a few cars...more like solid 50mph traffic for as far as the eye can see, until you come to a bottle neck town, then it slows right down.

Population increase is a huge factor, more people are moving here, between the 2001 & 2011 census we have seen as much as 11.5% increase in population up in Aberdeenshire, 11.1% increase in Highland, 7.3% Moray, 8.7% Perth & Kinross

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_Scotland

We need the better roads up here because more people from down south keep moving up here, so bring your roads whilst you are at it !

Glasgow City only saw a 2.7%, Edinburgh City 6.7%,

[clc]

It's bad enough that we have main "A" roads up here which are not even S2 grade!, but single with passing places.. ..& there's me thinking this was the 21st century!

21st century it may be but if they only have a few cars a day using it why bother?

The A890 is quite bizarre the way it changes from single track at the western end to high quality S2. If the remaining single track sections were upgraded more people heading for Inverness would start using it, taking the pressure off the A82. It seems to be only locals who use the A890 at the moment which is a shame as the section east of Lair is a cracking drive. The fact that police caught a Porsche driver doing 140mph gives you an idea of the quality of the alignment. And barely any traffic on it.

[Northern Lights]

The A890 is quite bizarre the way it changes from single track at the western end to high quality S2. If the remaining single track sections were upgraded more people heading for Inverness would start using it, taking the pressure off the A82. It seems to be only locals who use the A890 at the moment which is a shame as the section east of Lair is a cracking drive. The fact that police caught a Porsche driver doing 140mph gives you an idea of the quality of the alignment. And barely any traffic on it.

Parts of that road got nice EU funding, & yes done that & the A832 & A896 which again are similar, & some of the transitions are very bad, one is the end of a nice new straight & then goes to a S1 with a sharp left hand bend over a bridge.

Another bad road which has more traffic is the A86, S1/S2 & very twisty in parts

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.03214 ... 312!8i6656


If all these "A" roads were proper S2 (like the nice EU parts on the A890) it would decrease the accident rates & congestion due to farm traffic, blind corners etc.

[clc]

There are plans to upgrade the single track between Strathcarron and Balnacra: 

http://www.highland.gov.uk/download/mee ... eric_lines_;

And Balnacra to Lair is to be upgraded to 60mph S2: 

http://www.highland.gov.uk/download/mee ... oad_scheme;

Stromeferry to the A87 junction is fine so that would just leave Stromeferry Bypass and the A890 would be fully upgraded.

[Glen]

The A890 is quite bizarre the way it changes from single track at the western end to high quality S2.

It's not that strange really, it's just that parts of it have had recent investment to bring it up to a modern standard and other parts haven't.
For the last fifty or so years roads in the Highlands have been getting gradually upgrade to two-lane single carriageway. There was European Regional Development Fund funding which saw some upgrades built to a high standard in the last couple of decades, but there are still parts to be done.
The southern part of the A832 loop was only upgraded in the last decade and there is still a short bit of single track south of Gairloch (about a mile at the Slattadale end is currently being upgraded).
There are plans to continue to upgrade the A890 as funding permits - another mile at Strathcarron Junction was done last year - and there is the issue of bypassing the Stromeferry Bypass, which will be a large expenditure in one go whenever that is dealt with.

But the bulk of Highland Council's efforts to upgrade single track roads is going to be concentrated in that area now, since Skye is essentially "done" and the North and West coast routes don't need much more doing in the immediate future.

[Altnabreac]

The A890 is quite bizarre the way it changes from single track at the western end to high quality S2.

It's not that strange really, it's just that parts of it have had recent investment to bring it up to a modern standard and other parts haven't.
For the last fifty or so years roads in the Highlands have been getting gradually upgrade to two-lane single carriageway. There was European Regional Development Fund funding which saw some upgrades built to a high standard in the last couple of decades, but there are still parts to be done.
The southern part of the A832 loop was only upgraded in the last decade and there is still a short bit of single track south of Gairloch (about a mile at the Slattadale end is currently being upgraded).
There are plans to continue to upgrade the A890 as funding permits - another mile at Strathcarron Junction was done last year - and there is the issue of bypassing the Stromeferry Bypass, which will be a large expenditure in one go whenever that is dealt with.

But the bulk of Highland Council's efforts to upgrade single track roads is going to be concentrated in that area now, since Skye is essentially "done" and the North and West coast routes don't need much more doing in the immediate future.

I'd agree that the Gairloch area should be a priority for ongoing S2 upgrades but I'd hope the A836 would also be a priority to complete the last sections of S2 between Tongue and Thurso.

[Potholes ate my car]

The A890 is quite bizarre the way it changes from single track at the western end to high quality S2. If the remaining single track sections were upgraded more people heading for Inverness would start using it, taking the pressure off the A82. It seems to be only locals who use the A890 at the moment which is a shame as the section east of Lair is a cracking drive. The fact that police caught a Porsche driver doing 140mph gives you an idea of the quality of the alignment. And barely any traffic on it.

Parts of that road got nice EU funding, & yes done that & the A832 & A896 which again are similar, & some of the transitions are very bad, one is the end of a nice new straight & then goes to a S1 with a sharp left hand bend over a bridge.

Another bad road which has more traffic is the A86, S1/S2 & very twisty in parts

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@57.03214 ... 312!8i6656


If all these "A" roads were proper S2 (like the nice EU parts on the A890) it would decrease the accident rates & congestion due to farm traffic, blind corners etc.

The A86 is simultaneously one of my most and least favourite roads. It has some great scenery, and can be a joy to drive in places when it's quiet, but can be a bit scary on the S1 and lochside sections, and it can be frustrating when it's busy.

[wrinkly]

Alison Harris (Central Scotland) (Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party): To ask the
Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the upgrade of the A801 between
Grangemouth and the M8, including the carriageway improvements and new viaduct at the Avon
Gorge.

Holding answer issued: 26 July 2017 (S5W-10018)
Humza Yousaf: The Scottish Government remains committed to the upgrade of the A801, including
the carriageway improvements and new viaduct at Avon Gorge.
These improvements are planned to be delivered during the second cluster of investment under
Falkirk Council's Tax Incremental Financing (TIF) scheme. This will follow the M9 improvements
project and is currently scheduled for delivery around 2021.

What's the M9 improvements project?

[jackal]

I can find no evidence of such a project on the TS website:

https://www.transport.gov.scot/projects/?

[clc]

Alison Harris (Central Scotland) (Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party): To ask the
Scottish Government whether it will provide an update on the upgrade of the A801 between
Grangemouth and the M8, including the carriageway improvements and new viaduct at the Avon
Gorge.

Holding answer issued: 26 July 2017 (S5W-10018)
Humza Yousaf: The Scottish Government remains committed to the upgrade of the A801, including
the carriageway improvements and new viaduct at Avon Gorge.
These improvements are planned to be delivered during the second cluster of investment under
Falkirk Council's Tax Incremental Financing (TIF) scheme. This will follow the M9 improvements
project and is currently scheduled for delivery around 2021.

What's the M9 improvements project?

Junction 5 or 6 will be upgraded.

[Gav]

A.201 This intervention supports the objective to improve access to Grangemouth port and the freight hub, by improving access for both road and rail freight. Improved road access from Grangemouth onto the motorway network would be provided through upgrades to Junction 6 on the M9 (providing south – facing slip roads) The A801 would be upgraded between Grangemouth and the M8 (including carriageway improvements and a new viaduct) to serve developing industrial and distribution facilities along the M8 corridor.

https://www.transport.gov.scot/publicat ... 10194c-25/