Pathetic Dual Carriageways.

[JohnnyMo]

Not the 1970's bypass but the older road. -- Maybe I should have been clearer and said the old A19. D2 for with cycle tracks most of the way part of a S4 / D2 route ( except for Marton Road to Acklam Road section ) from Grangetown to Wolviston.

I don't believe the A19 ever went anywhere near Grangetown.
...

I didn't say the A19 when to Grangetown, rather the Trunk Road (A1085) (poor bit via Clairville Road , Park Road North, Ayresome St) Acklam Raod ( A1032 ) Newport Bridge and the Wolviston Road (A19) was designed as a integrated route of S4/D2 quality.

[Enceladus]

The N71 just south of Cork city, just after the Chetwynd Viaduct. Less than a mile long with one carriageway rather poorly aligned. Built in the 1970s and useful only as an overtaking opportunity if you really put the foot down.

The old N1 (now R132) just north of Swords. Again dating from the 1970s, just over a mile long until it was joined up to the old Swords bypass. Now made redundant by the M1 and has a large dumbbell interchange along its length.

The A26 between Ballymoney and Coleraine. Less than a mile in length and barely useful as a quick overtaking opportunity.

[KeithW]

Not the 1970's bypass but the older road. -- Maybe I should have been clearer and said the old A19. D2 for with cycle tracks most of the way part of a S4 / D2 route ( except for Marton Road to Acklam Road section ) from Grangetown to Wolviston.

I don't believe the A19 ever went anywhere near Grangetown.
...

I didn't say the A19 when to Grangetown, rather the Trunk Road (A1085) (poor bit via Clairville Road , Park Road North, Ayresome St) Acklam Raod ( A1032 ) Newport Bridge and the Wolviston Road (A19) was designed as a integrated route of S4/D2 quality.

How do you work that out ? Prior to the 1970's there was no integrated road planning in the area as the 13 different local authorities in two counties did their own thing. Stockton and Thornaby couldn't even agree licensing hours so there used to be a mad dash over Victoria bridge to get the last 30 minutes of drinking in.

The A1085 was designed in the 1920's and the current A19 was designed in the 1970's. As built the A1085 basically ran past Albert Park and ended at Linthorpe Road, From there the A1130 ran up Ayresome Street to Acklam road an on to the Newport Bridge and on to Billingham which is now the A1032.

The only section of the route that had the designation A19 was the stretch between Norton and Wolviston. Some sections of that were S4/D2 but that was more to handle the heavy loads going to ICI Billingham than a part of any integrated route. That is the Wolviston Road and has been a built up area since the 1930's. While the rest of the region was depressed Billingham was a boom town in the 1930's thanks to the ICI site with the population rising from less than 5000 in 1920 to more than 25,000 by 1940

There is a nice resource on the history of the A19 and other NE Roads on the The Chartered Institution of Highways & Transportation website. A good start place is this search.

http://www.ciht.org.uk/en/utilities/sea ... trunk+road

To see the Wolviston Road in the 1950's see
https://picturestocktonarchive.wordpres ... ston-road/
and even earlier
https://picturestocktonarchive.wordpres ... ing-north/

[JohnnyMo]

Even back then most roads were grant aided by the government, yes the county planned them, but the MoT had a big say on which roads were built.

Newport Bridge was a major infrastructure investment for Durham CC so it is implausible that North Yorks CC would not have had to build roads to feed into it.

The fact that roads either side of the bridge will build at the same time as the bridge gives some planning overview and the fact that most of these were built to a similar standard S4/D2. As I said the missing link was Marton Road to Acklam Road section through Middlesbrough, but the fact the designation was continued along those show it was considered a through route. I am talking about roads built in the 1930's not the 1970's

ICI Billingham was built at the request of the government during world war 1, and it main customer was the Army.

[Chris Bertram]

Newport Bridge was a major infrastructure investment for Durham CC so it is implausible that North Yorks CC would not have had to build roads to feed into it.

North *Riding* CC in those days, though surely the councils either side would have been county boroughs anyway?

[JohnnyMo]

Newport Bridge was a major infrastructure investment for Durham CC so it is implausible that North Yorks CC would not have had to build roads to feed into it.

North *Riding* CC in those days, though surely the councils either side would have been county boroughs anyway?

( it was late at night ) I was thinking North Riding, when I wrote North Yorks, I wasn't sure of the boundary's of Stockton, but if I had thought about it the bridge was always painted the same shade of green as Stockton buses.
Also I should have known County Borough did roads as well as education

[KeithW]

Even back then most roads were grant aided by the government, yes the county planned them, but the MoT had a big say on which roads were built.

Newport Bridge was a major infrastructure investment for Durham CC so it is implausible that North Yorks CC would not have had to build roads to feed into it.

The fact that roads either side of the bridge will build at the same time as the bridge gives some planning overview and the fact that most of these were built to a similar standard S4/D2. As I said the missing link was Marton Road to Acklam Road section through Middlesbrough, but the fact the designation was continued along those show it was considered a through route. I am talking about roads built in the 1930's not the 1970's

ICI Billingham was built at the request of the government during world war 1, and it main customer was the Army.

The requirement for the bridge was identified by a joint board from Middlesbrough Corporation and Durham CC in 1925 which requested that Mott Hay and Anderson prepare a design study. The final form of the bridge was chosen as Stockton Docks lay up river so the bridge span had to be liftable. The money was however not available and it was not until 1929 when the Ministry of Transport agreed to meet 75% of the cost that construction was authorized by an act of Parliament.

A bridge without roads either side is neither use nor ornament and there was certainly some planning required. However you need to recall that the Middlesbrough end was very different from what you see today. It was in fact the heart of the Ironmasters district with a mass of blast furnaces and mills. As for the approach roads some of them were S4 or D2 but Newport road only became S4 later since at the time the bridge was built 2 of those lanes were in fact tram lines. As late as the 1960's you could see the top of the rails when the road surface was worn. The trams were withdrawn in 1934 just after the bridge opened.

The main through road was in fact down Ayresome Street and along Park Road North from which traffic would run either east along the A1085 trunk road or south along Marton road to Stokesley. You would have avoided a route via Acklam Road and Marton as Ladgate lane was a very poor route indeed for heavy traffic since at that time it was just a country lane. There is a bypassed section still in existence at Slip Inn Bank.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.53707 ... 6656?hl=en

The A1130 actually ran from Norton over the Tees Newport Bridge, From there you could follow the A176 west to Thornaby from which you could turn south along the A1045 through High Leven over the river crossing via the bridge at the bottom of Leven Bank. From there you could pick up the A1043 and join the A19 at Kirklevington. This is not the route I would have chosen for a 1930's lorry but it did have the merit of bypassing Stockton and Yarm.

Prior to the A66 and new A19 opening in the 1970's the preferred route to the south from Billingham was over the Newport Bridge , past Albert Park and up the Marton road to Stokesley and the Cleveland Tontine. The route via High Leven was generally avoided.

As for ICI Billingham it was originally planned as a Government munitions plant to make ammonium nitrate explosives but the war ended before it was completed. Brunner and Mond which became ICI took over the unfinished plant in 1920 and completed it as a synthetic ammonia fertilizer plant.
This is why the company social club was called the Synthonia.

The plant expanded quickly with further works such as the one that used the Bergius Process to produce aviation gasoline. By 1934 it was a major commercial success and employed over 5000 people. Many of the leading organic chemists there were actually Jewish refugees from Germany. My best friend at school was the son of one of them.

[Chris Bertram]

From there you could pick up the A1043 and join the A19 at Kirklevington.

A1044, I think, unless there's been renumbering?

[KeithW]

From there you could pick up the A1043 and join the A19 at Kirklevington.

A1044, I think, unless there's been renumbering?

There was indeed some renumbering, in the 1990's I think and it is now the A1044.

[KeithW]

North *Riding* CC in those days, though surely the councils either side would have been county boroughs anyway?

Politically the whole thing was a mess and delayed for years by the squabbling Borough Councils

Eston UDC and Redcar UDC objected because they wanted a new crossing east of the Transporter as Newport was too far remote from them.

Stockton Council were against any scheme using a bridge and wanted a tunnel which was far too expensive to be funded during the depression. Billingham council on the other hand were desperate to have the new bridge built and heavily lobbied Durham CC and their MP to that effect. Middlesbrough council were desperate to have a new bridge as overcrowding on the Transporter bridge was so heavy that not only were vehicles banned at peak periods but the police had to provide officers for crowd control !

The Tees conservancy were also against a bridge on the grounds that it infringed their water rights.

In the end when the the Ministry of Transport of the newly elected Labour government offered to pay 75% of the bill Durham CC stepped in and did a deal with Middlesbrough council effectively overriding the objections from Stockton.

[Chris Bertram]

From there you could pick up the A1043 and join the A19 at Kirklevington.

A1044, I think, unless there's been renumbering?

There was indeed some renumbering, in the 1990's I think and it is now the A1044.

A1043 is the link between A171 and A172 around Nunthorpe, always has been as far as I know. There was some rerouting and renumbering concerning the A1044/A1045 a little while ago, so A1045 is now redundant and A1044 now meets A174 near Ingleby Barwick.

[Richardf]

There is a long section on A35 between Dorchester and Bridport followed by a short section which are never that busy and then another short section just after the Charmouth roundabout so in my opinion pathetic as only used to pass odd caravan. Being 13 and not knowing when was the long section of D2 on the hill done?

Hmm wouldnt call the sections between Dorchester and bridport 'Pathetic; exactly. Both serve a usefull purpose and the longer eastern one is pretty substantial. Are you suggesting they shoulf be joined together to make a much longer stretch. often thought about this and decided it probably isnt worth the pretty substantial construction that would be needed to dual over the hill in between. Dont think that bit of A35 is busy enough anyway. Not sure when they were built, judging by the design and map evidence, late 1960's or early 1970's at a guess.

For a truly pathetic bit of dual on the A35 there is the section at the top of Chideock Hill which i am guessing is old, probably older than the climbing lane up the hill so would have been intended as an overtaking stretch after climbing the hill, however i dont think its really long enough for that.

[KeithW]

A1043 is the link between A171 and A172 around Nunthorpe, always has been as far as I know. There was some rerouting and renumbering concerning the A1044/A1045 a little while ago, so A1045 is now redundant and A1044 now meets A174 near Ingleby Barwick.

Doh !
I really should know that given that my last house on Teesside was in Marton and I am moving back there next month

[ravenbluemoon]

I've always found the section of DC heading to Codnor on the A610 to be a bit pathetic. Not due to the distance, but more down to how narrow and twisty it is. It is seriously below any standard I've ever seen, even down to very steep breaks in the central reserve (some sections of the have the two sides at different levels), which must be very uncomfortable to use.
Never experienced it as a D2, as it is remarked as a single lane taking the "racing line" round the bends.

[Chris Bertram]

Doh !
I really should know that given that my last house on Teesside was in Marton and I am moving back there next month

Don't worry about it, an easy slip of the memory. I used to live in Guisborough so that was the obvious way into Boro', and Dad was a head teacher at a school on Marton Road so went that way often.

[poshbakerloo]

What about Hibel Road, Macclesfield?

https://goo.gl/maps/NttFH87HSmM2

Its short, run up a steep hill, has a flat junction in the middle, is mostly one long traffic jam from end to end and forms a major trunk route so always has lorries trying to do hill starts on it! lol

[andyh3930]

I've been lurking for a while now but I thought I'd delurk for this thread. I have a candidate for a pathetic Dual Carriageway, this being the A338 south of Salisbury. Both northbound and southbound have junctions to minor roads and the original 3/4 mile D2 has been cut to D1 for about a 1/4 of mile on in each direction. To add to this it is one of the few sections of the Salisbury to Ringwood road that can be used for overtaking so frustrated drivers try to overtake before running out of road creating a lot of dodgy overtakes. See here and here

[Glenn A]

Now consigned to the history books, but the old D2 A74 was hair raising. You had to watch out for at grade junctions, bus stops( any bus driver driving on the A74 needed a medal), farm tracks and houses dotted along the road. The equivalent now, which is being turned into a motorway, would be the A1 from Scotch Corner to Leeming, a road that has been unfit for purpose since the eighties.

[Richardf]

I've been lurking for a while now but I thought I'd delurk for this thread. I have a candidate for a pathetic Dual Carriageway, this being the A338 south of Salisbury. Both northbound and southbound have junctions to minor roads and the original 3/4 mile D2 has been cut to D1 for about a 1/4 of mile on in each direction. To add to this it is one of the few sections of the Salisbury to Ringwood road that can be used for overtaking so frustrated drivers try to overtake before running out of road creating a lot of dodgy overtakes. See here and here

Were you aware the Fordingbridge bypass was meant to be D2 but completed as S2. Combine that with the bit you mention and it points to bigger plans for this section of A338.

[RichardA35]

..For a truly pathetic bit of dual on the A35 there is the section at the top of Chideock Hill which i am guessing is old, probably older than the climbing lane up the hill so would have been intended as an overtaking stretch after climbing the hill, however i dont think its really long enough for that.

It may be just a coincidence but that was the exact point where the Chideock and Morcombelake Bypass was to cross the existing road.