Pathetic Dual Carriageways.

[mittfh]

New towns like their pathetic D2s - both Redditch and Telford have dumbells where the link road is D2 (as well as the flyover), but everything else is S2.

Redditch (Just left of "Ipsley")

Telford (Spot the similar example between Tweedale and Halesfield).

I suppose that as they link two dumbell roundabouts, they cope with any theoretical traffic heading between the roundabouts, but (especially in the Redditch example) is there enough traffic to justify the D2?

[Jam35]

I have suspicions (but an annoying gap in my map collection) that the Redditch one may have originally not had one of the roundabouts (the northern one) and that the "dual carriageway" is a relic of a trumpet-like slip road.

[Glen]

Pathetic D2? The A9. Why? Due to the bits of S2 in the way.
What's even more pathetic though is the new bits of S2+1.

Very true. It's actually quite dangerous, because people put the pedal to the metal, all trying to out-accelerate each other, and end up coming off the end of the D2 way too fast. I've often found myself doing well over the limit on the narrow S2 to the E of Marsh.

That's what happens on the S2+1 on the A9 - and it's often even worse as frequently the first vehicle wanting to overtake an artic is another artic. That manouver takes up about 2/3 of the length if the overtaking lane so the cars in the queue behind all try to get past in the short space remaining.

[DavidBrown]

Pathetic D2? The A9. Why? Due to the bits of S2 in the way.
What's even more pathetic though is the new bits of S2+1.

Very true. It's actually quite dangerous, because people put the pedal to the metal, all trying to out-accelerate each other, and end up coming off the end of the D2 way too fast. I've often found myself doing well over the limit on the narrow S2 to the E of Marsh.

That's what happens on the S2+1 on the A9 - and it's often even worse as frequently the first vehicle wanting to overtake an artic is another artic. That manouver takes up about 2/3 of the length if the overtaking lane so the cars in the queue behind all try to get past in the short space remaining.

This is why the NDLR is so bad. From Tiverton to Bideford, it's all either S2 or S2+1. Plus there are a few speed cameras, dangerous junctions and hills - so if a lorry tries to overtake another lorry on a hill, you can forget about doing more than 30-40 mph!

[ForestChav]

Pathetic D2? The A9. Why? Due to the bits of S2 in the way.
What's even more pathetic though is the new bits of S2+1.

Very true. It's actually quite dangerous, because people put the pedal to the metal, all trying to out-accelerate each other, and end up coming off the end of the D2 way too fast. I've often found myself doing well over the limit on the narrow S2 to the E of Marsh.

That's what happens on the S2+1 on the A9 - and it's often even worse as frequently the first vehicle wanting to overtake an artic is another artic. That manouver takes up about 2/3 of the length if the overtaking lane so the cars in the queue behind all try to get past in the short space remaining.

This is why the NDLR is so bad. From Tiverton to Bideford, it's all either S2 or S2+1. Plus there are a few speed cameras, dangerous junctions and hills - so if a lorry tries to overtake another lorry on a hill, you can forget about doing more than 30-40 mph!

Let's face it though, it's better than the old A361/A39 (now of course B3227 > u/c > B3233) from Taunton, through loads of diddy villages (and bendy too) and of course the middle of Barnstaple and Bideford. The NDLR does bypass all of that and provide a reasonably fast road. Barring the HGVs you mentioned it doesn't really need to be D2 (resisting jokes about new drivers and speeding!)

I remember countless journeys over the "old" A361 as a kid... Grr.

All that's really needed us what they're doing - a bypass of Barnstaple to the West, cutting off all the A39/A361 traffic from the centre.

[Queeg]

I'll nominate the A90 through Aberdeen. The fact that HGVs would rather go through the city centre than use the A90 to get from one end to the other speaks volumes...

[FosseWay]

Drove down the A48 from Gloucester to Chepstow yesterday. There are several piddly little bits of dual, some of which have been restricted to 1 lane by hatching (prob sensible given their length). One was so short that the 'end of dual carriageway' sign was before the start of the central reservation!

The length of the dualled bits is only rivalled in brevity by the distance between arbitrary changes in speed limit (50-60-50-40-60-30-40 etc etc).

They also seem to have done away with the last bit of S3 with no solid white line since I was last down there.

[haymansafc]

Let's face it though, it's better than the old A361/A39 (now of course B3227 > u/c > B3233) from Taunton, through loads of diddy villages (and bendy too) and of course the middle of Barnstaple and Bideford. The NDLR does bypass all of that and provide a reasonably fast road. Barring the HGVs you mentioned it doesn't really need to be D2 (resisting jokes about new drivers and speeding!)

I remember countless journeys over the "old" A361 as a kid... Grr.

All that's really needed us what they're doing - a bypass of Barnstaple to the West, cutting off all the A39/A361 traffic from the centre.

I've only ever known the A361 as it currently is and I haven't really had a problem with it in all fairness. Most uphill sections are S2+1, but whatever you do, pull out in advance if you see a struggling lorry otherwise no one will let you out to pass it when you find out you are slowing right down approaching it indicating right to pull out!

Overall though, I think the S2 strech from west of Tiverton though to Barnstaple is a great strech of road with good visibility, I've always enjoyed it when I've been down there. Agreed though, there are a couple of junctions which could be better laid out and putting speed cameras at the bottom of long hills where you gain speed through gravity is slightly annoying...

Even though I do enjoy driving through Barnstaple (I like the hanging basket and plant displays they have out on the side of the road there!), I can't wait until the bypass is open. It'll probably save a good ten minutes or more. However, if I'm not in a hurry, I think I'll stick to the old road even with it's hundreds of roundabouts as it'll probably be a lot quieter then - best of both worlds!

[andrew_duffy]

I think this one in Dublin is more pathetic than any posted so far:

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=53.344339, ... 3,0.007682

One of many remnants of an abandoned plan to blast a ring road through disadvantaged areas of the city centre, this dual is about 200 yards long, and the Northbound carriageway ends at a 20' brick wall, from where you must take either a sensible left turn to ultimately end up where you started, or a completely blind right turn across the Southbound carriageway to get somewhere useful (the N4 along the rive quays).

[Roadtripper_Ian]

I nominate this former section of A1 Wetherby Bypass. Its asleep now, isolated by earth mounds at both ends, awaiting its eventual resurrection as A168.

[ajuk]

I have to say I have noticed a few pathetic dual carriageways, near to where I live.

First off there are the two stubs of Great Stoke Way in Bristol, not just pathetic because they have such widely ignored and unenforced 30 limits for no apparent reason, but they are going to be building the Stoke Gifford bypass now, but it won't be linking the two ends together.


Wellsway in Bath simple because of it's speed limit, again against design I suspect (once a 40?).

Another is on the A38 Near Berkley, turns out the bridge over the railway was once D2 It's hard to see how, it's so narrow, even without the concrete they added. It looks as though they have found out it is week and needs replacing and I've yet to see any sign of any work being done on it.

The winner is The incredibly short section of D2 outside Coalpit Heath this has been down graded to D1 and I actuall agree with that, quite why is was built I have no idea.
Although the road also has a really stupid 40 limit which I'm sure is not what the road was designed for.

[KeithW]

I have already mentioned this road in previous threads but the A1085 which has the street name 'Trunk Road' between Middlesbrough and Redcar now falls into this category. It was built in the 1920's when it was indeed a primary route and built to provide better road access to the industries along the river. It was originally built as a mixture of as a D2 and S4 although in many cases the D2 sections had a very narrow central divider, little more than a row of raised bricks in some cases. The bridges over local railway lines were also rather narrow

Since the completion of the A66 to the north and A174 to the south the road is no longer a primary and has been steadily downgraded. Sections of the D2 and S4 have now been downgraded to D1 and S2 to allow cycle lanes to be carved out but still there remain a few short sections of D2 between the A1053 and Redcar that give a flavour of what until the early 70's was the only D2 in the Teesside area and why it was called 'The Trunk Road'

[Glenn A]

The completely and spectacularly useless A184 Felling by pass. It's just a collection of traffic lights, entrances to industrial estates, and a 40 mph speed limit that's never attained due to the congestion. Locals find it quicker to use the old road, or drive along Nest Rd( next to the river), or even catch a Metro from Gateshead to Felling.

[Glenn A]

How about various Cumbrian ones (and probably elsewhere), where the road was duelled simply by building a new carriageway approximately next to the old one, which is still very windy. The A66 by Bassenthwaite (very twisty going north, smooth and straight going south, where it was built on top of the old railway) and the A591 a little north of Thirlmere (quite hard to actually overtake safely on that bit, going south) are good examples. Then a bit further down the A591 there is the very short section right on top of Dunmail Raise.

Tell me about it, but also the A66 west of Penrith, where the westbound carriageway beyond the A592 roundabout is merely the old A594( which the A66 was here until 1968) with farm entrances, severe bends and a lack of safe overtaking opportunities. I think any upgrade to the A66 should consider replacing this and the Bassenthwaite D2.

[JohnnyMo]

... that give a flavour of what until the early 70's was the only D2 in the Teesside area and why it was called 'The Trunk Road'

I though the A19 through Billingham was a similar vintage & spec & both were (loosely) associated with the Newport Bridge in the early 1930's

[KeithW]

... that give a flavour of what until the early 70's was the only D2 in the Teesside area and why it was called 'The Trunk Road'

I though the A19 through Billingham was a similar vintage & spec & both were (loosely) associated with the Newport Bridge in the early 1930's

As I recall the western bypass of Billingham didn't open until 1975 or thereabouts. I well recall driving over the Newport bridge and crawling through Billingham along the Wolviston Road. Yes this was D2 in parts but was subject to a 40mph limit and you were lucky to achieve that.

[dorsetlover]

There is a long section on A35 between Dorchester and Bridport followed by a short section which are never that busy and then another short section just after the Charmouth roundabout so in my opinion pathetic as only used to pass odd caravan. Being 13 and not knowing when was the long section of D2 on the hill done?

[ForestChav]

There is a long section on A35 between Dorchester and Bridport followed by a short section which are never that busy and then another short section just after the Charmouth roundabout so in my opinion pathetic as only used to pass odd caravan. Being 13 and not knowing when was the long section of D2 on the hill done?

Hmm, I thought you said the other day your brother was 13...

[JohnnyMo]

... that give a flavour of what until the early 70's was the only D2 in the Teesside area and why it was called 'The Trunk Road'

I though the A19 through Billingham was a similar vintage & spec & both were (loosely) associated with the Newport Bridge in the early 1930's

As I recall the western bypass of Billingham didn't open until 1975 or thereabouts. I well recall driving over the Newport bridge and crawling through Billingham along the Wolviston Road. Yes this was D2 in parts but was subject to a 40mph limit and you were lucky to achieve that.

Not the 1970's bypass but the older road. -- Maybe I should have been clearer and said the old A19. D2 for with cycle tracks most of the way part of a S4 / D2 route ( except for Marton Road to Acklam Road section ) from Grangetown to Wolviston.

[KeithW]

Not the 1970's bypass but the older road. -- Maybe I should have been clearer and said the old A19. D2 for with cycle tracks most of the way part of a S4 / D2 route ( except for Marton Road to Acklam Road section ) from Grangetown to Wolviston.

I don't believe the A19 ever went anywhere near Grangetown.

Prior to the opening of the Wolviston to Crathorne D2 section and the Tees Viaduct in 1975 the A19 went from Billingham via Norton and through Stockton, and Yarm to Crathorne. It was primarily a slow S2 passing through the centre of the towns along its route

The current A66 from Grangetown to the Tees Viaduct only opened in the early 1980's. Prior to that the route you would have followed was either the A175 via South Bank, Cargo Fleet, North Ormesby and Middlesbrough to the Newport Bridge or the A1085 Trunk Road from Grangetown to Marton Grove and then up Marton Road to Swans Corner at Nunthorpe. From Swans Corner to the Cleveland Tontine where you picked the A19 you followed the A172 via the Stokesley bypass, This was all S2 road except for the Trunk Road section and a few short sections of S4 along Marton Road.

This route is virtually unchanged since the 1950's and is now VERY congested as what was open country is now covered in housing. It can easily take you an hour to cover the 3 miles from Marton to Middlesbrough at peak periods. It is so bad that when a neighbour in Marton had a heart attack they sent the air ambulance to ferry him the 1.5 miles to James Cook Hospital.

The route from Billingham to Middlesbrough over the Newport Bridge was the A1130. It had short sections of D2 but was horribly congested. In the early 70's it used to take me an hour to get from Linthorpe to Billingham.

The road that ran from Acklam Road to Marton Road was the A174 but prior to the Parkway opening in 1975 it ran along Ladgate Lane and through Ormesby, Normanby and Eston along a route which is now the B1380. The only D2 section was the short bit along the south and West of the Wilton site which opened in the early 1970's.