A428 Black Cat - Caxton Gibbet improvement

[lefthandedspanner]

A friend of mine used to commute by bike Redditch to central Birmingham - a distance of about 14 miles each way in the days when no-one had ever heard the phrase "appropriate provision". The door-to-door journey took him about the same time as driving in by car or taking the train. He was *very* fit.

Likewise, a former colleague used to commute by cycle between Bingley and south-east Bradford, 9-10 miles each way. Given the general standard of driving in the area, and amount of HGVs on the roads he really was taking life into his own hands, but given the traffic situation it was still substantially quicker than driving at peak times.

[medgoode]

Given that the old A428 is indeed still available it is surely down to the local highway authority which is Cambridgeshire County Council to make the decisions on how the old route should be configured. I suggest you raise the matter with them. They worked quite closely with HE on such matters on the A14 upgrade. As an ex resident of South Cambs I am sure that the District council has opinions on the matter as well. At the end of the day it is the local highway authority that is responsible for the long term support of the new LAR.

South Cambs have recently issued a press release indicating what their response will be to the consultation:

https://www.scambs.gov.uk/council-calls ... 8-upgrade/

There is also a link on that page to their cabinet report:

https://scambs.moderngov.co.uk/document ... report.pdf

They mention the provision for NMUs in that report:

In relation to South Cambridgeshire’s net zero carbon ambition, there is a
need for the project to maximise support for Non-Motorised User (NMU)
modes along the whole of the route. Clarification on the approach to this is
requested, as the proposal does not include a segregated NMU provision
along the route.

They also have concerns about junction design:

More information is required on junction design, traffic management of
existing A428 when new A428 comes online and to address the traffic impacts
on communities during construction.

What is interesting is that they were not happy with the timing of the consultation.

[trickstat]

15/20 miles you'd be looking at the dedicated cyclists only really - what's where strong public transport links need to take over where possible

Such multi-model travel (bike + bus/train) is practically impossible though. You cannot take a bike on a bus, and South Western Railways won't (with few exceptions) let you take a bike on their trains - unless it's one of those fold-up bikes, which (having previously owned one) is not suitable for any sort of distance.

This does vary between operators, probably down to the layout of the trains. Great Northern/Thameslink appear to allow any kind of bike.

[Burwellian]

They mention the provision for NMUs in that report:

In relation to South Cambridgeshire’s net zero carbon ambition, there is a
need for the project to maximise support for Non-Motorised User (NMU)
modes along the whole of the route. Clarification on the approach to this is
requested, as the proposal does not include a segregated NMU provision
along the route.

What NMU's?

As mentioned you'd be unlikely to cycle regularly to Cambridge along here, let alone walk, given the distance. Taking traffic off the current A428 will make that easier anyway though.

Let's assume then that we're looking at public transport;
- There's no railway line between St Neots and Cambridge. Cambourne has no railway line. St Neots is ECML whilst Cambridge is Fen Line, you'd have to change at either Peterborough, Hitchin or Stevenage. But the Oxford - Cambridge line is gradually being rebuilt to the south of here; mostly at the Oxford end so far.
- Buses? I know South Cambs are very fond on their guided busways, but the proposals between Cambourne and Cambridge are not universally popular and that would be higher priority.
- There's no light rail (tram) system anywhere nearby. Tempted to say the closest modern one is South London.

Have I missed anything? What are South Cambs expecting? A load of bridleways so that those coming in from this region can return to horse and cart?

[lefthandedspanner]

Have I missed anything? What are South Cambs expecting? A load of bridleways so that those coming in from this region can return to horse and cart?

It'd be a foolproof way of reducing carbon emissions, that's for sure.

15/20 miles you'd be looking at the dedicated cyclists only really - what's where strong public transport links need to take over where possible

Such multi-model travel (bike + bus/train) is practically impossible though. You cannot take a bike on a bus, and South Western Railways won't (with few exceptions) let you take a bike on their trains - unless it's one of those fold-up bikes, which (having previously owned one) is not suitable for any sort of distance.

This does vary between operators, probably down to the layout of the trains. Great Northern/Thameslink appear to allow any kind of bike.

As do Northern Rail.

[trickstat]

They mention the provision for NMUs in that report:

In relation to South Cambridgeshire’s net zero carbon ambition, there is a
need for the project to maximise support for Non-Motorised User (NMU)
modes along the whole of the route. Clarification on the approach to this is
requested, as the proposal does not include a segregated NMU provision
along the route.

What NMU's?

As mentioned you'd be unlikely to cycle regularly to Cambridge along here, let alone walk, given the distance. Taking traffic off the current A428 will make that easier anyway though.

Let's assume then that we're looking at public transport;
- There's no railway line between St Neots and Cambridge. Cambourne has no railway line. St Neots is ECML whilst Cambridge is Fen Line, you'd have to change at either Peterborough, Hitchin or Stevenage. But the Oxford - Cambridge line is gradually being rebuilt to the south of here; mostly at the Oxford end so far.
- Buses? I know South Cambs are very fond on their guided busways, but the proposals between Cambourne and Cambridge are not universally popular and that would be higher priority.
- There's no light rail (tram) system anywhere nearby. Tempted to say the closest modern one is South London.

Have I missed anything? What are South Cambs expecting? A load of bridleways so that those coming in from this region can return to horse and cart?

Maybe they are not thinking so much of people cycling from St Neots to Cambridge for which you'd have to be pretty hardcore but more St Neots to Cambourne or Cambourne to Cambridge.

[medgoode]

Have I missed anything? What are South Cambs expecting? A load of bridleways so that those coming in from this region can return to horse and cart?

Maybe they are not thinking so much of people cycling from St Neots to Cambridge for which you'd have to be pretty hardcore but more St Neots to Cambourne or Cambourne to Cambridge.

If we are to consider cyclists I think it's fair to say that people in the surrounding villages, such as Eltisley and Croxton, might cycle to Cambourne given that South Cambs District Council offices and a number of tech companies are located in the business park. There could also be a small proportion of leisure cyclists if the NMU provision was good enough, i.e. they would feel safe.

[Chris5156]

Maybe they are not thinking so much of people cycling from St Neots to Cambridge for which you'd have to be pretty hardcore but more St Neots to Cambourne or Cambourne to Cambridge.

Yes. Nobody expects that the A428 between St Neots and Cambridge will be used solely by people going end-to-end between St Neots and Cambridge. Why expect the same for the parallel cycle route?

[Fenlander]

15/20 miles you'd be looking at the dedicated cyclists only really - what's where strong public transport links need to take over where possible

Such multi-model travel (bike + bus/train) is practically impossible though. You cannot take a bike on a bus, and South Western Railways won't (with few exceptions) let you take a bike on their trains - unless it's one of those fold-up bikes, which (having previously owned one) is not suitable for any sort of distance.

This does vary between operators, probably down to the layout of the trains. Great Northern/Thameslink appear to allow any kind of bike.

I remember my grandad saying when he was a delivery boy on a bike he used to have to take the front wheel off to take it on the train as they charged extra for a bike but not for bike parts.

[medgoode]

I went along to the consultation event at Cambourne yesterday. Here are a couple of observations:

• The event was well organised with representatives from various aspects of the project, e.g. traffic, design, environment, etc.

• There was a dedicated team and table area for showing off the Minecraft modelling they have done. There were a couple of kids playing on Minecraft while I was there, which I guess has the double approach of keeping them occupied while their parents talk to staff at the event and may also get them interested in engineering.

• There was an animation that showed how the construction of the Black Cat interchange would be handled. It looks like they will construct a huge gyratory that will eventually be the roundabout part of the stackabout, then build around that.

• When I arrived a local resident was in a heated argument about the fact that the A428 will drop to one lane before the Girton interchange. Understandably the staff at the event said this was not in the scope for the A428 project, but he was still quite insistent on getting his point across.

• I asked why they had not included changes to the entrance to the Caxton Gibbet service area, especially as the West Cambourne development will increase traffic flow on the A1198. The design guy said that it was not part of the scheme, but I should make a comment in the consultation questionnaire.

• I tried to tease out of him whether the dual carriageway for the slip road to access the westbound carriageway at Caxton Gibbet was provision for development of what is marked as 'farm access'. He said no. He explained that it would not be allowed to have the petrol station access being directly on a slip road and the dual carriageway is to make sure that when exiting the petrol station all traffic goes left.

• The new build parts of the existing A428 will have a 3 metre wide path for NMUs. This seemed to cover all directions at the Caxton Gibbet interchange, including linking to the cycle path that currently runs on the north side of the A428 east of the roundabout (i.e. the start of the current dual carriageway section).

• I commented that cyclists will find crossing the A1198 at the northern roundabout at Caxton Gibbet difficult if there was no crossing located there. I was told to mention this in the consultation document.

• Interestingly a stretch of the existing A428 that will not be rebuilt does not have a 3 metre wide path for NMUs designed in. I am told that they will be in discussion with Cambridgeshire County Council to get this gap filled. If they don't do it there will be a short stretch where cyclists and horse riders would need to join the existing A428.

• I asked if the road would be called the A421. They said that this decision has to be made higher up, but the design guy said that if it was his decision he would as he likes the idea of a continuous road number. He said they have assumed it in the videos they made, but that does not mean it will definitely be the A421.

• I asked if there were any plans to build an offline A1 and whether this was considered in the plans for this scheme. No there are not at present, although HE has a scheme looking at the A1 in general, and therefore it has not been considered. But I was told that due to the increase in housing in the area the Black Cat wouldn't necessarily be a waste of money if an offline solution was chosen.

• I was told the existing A428 would not continue to be called the A428 as it would no longer be an A road.

Overall it was very interesting to be able to see all the plans spread out, see the animations on monitors and be able to speak to people involved in different parts of the project. The design guy didn't seem to know of the term 'stackabout' though. Is this just a term coined by people in this forum?

[Big Nick]

Locals are upset that there will not be a new junction on the A428 just for the 4000 new homes being built at Bourn airfield. Somebody needs to explain to them (mainly the Parish Councillor ) about traffic conflict and how having small junctions too close to each other is a bad idea.
https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/ ... t-9084139/

[KeithW]

Locals are upset that there will not be a new junction on the A428 just for the 4000 new homes being built at Bourn airfield. Somebody needs to explain to them (mainly the Parish Councillor ) about traffic conflict and how having small junctions too close to each other is a bad idea.
https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/ ... t-9084139/

Its worse than that as there is absolutely no need for one. You get off the A428 either at the Cambourne or Dry Drayton junction and drive 2 miles or so down the old A428 - the St Neots road and use the flyover to the Broadway which was installed specifically to allow access to Bourn and the airfield. There is no extra distance involved at all and the driving time difference is minimal.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.22074 ... authuser=0

[c2R]

Progress update: It looks like there's ground survey excavation work going on at various points on the route, particularly around Caxton Gibbet...

[Peter Freeman]

The design guy didn't seem to know of the term 'stackabout' though. Is this just a term coined by people in this forum?

I think it is. Official/HE version: stacked roundabout, 3-level roundabout, 3-level stacked roundabout, …?

[medgoode]

Prompted by a post on the A14C2H Facebook page about the A428 Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet scheme, the project page on the HE website says:

Before we submit our application for development consent, we want your views on these proposed changes. These changes include:
• Changes to the development boundary (known as the Order limits)
• Changes to the design of the scheme since July 2019.

The consultation opens on Wednesday 24 June. It will run for five weeks, closing at 23:59 on Tuesday 28 July 2020

So I guess we have to wait two weeks to see what design changes there are.

[camflyer]

Prompted by a post on the A14C2H Facebook page about the A428 Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet scheme, the project page on the HE website says:

Before we submit our application for development consent, we want your views on these proposed changes. These changes include:
• Changes to the development boundary (known as the Order limits)
• Changes to the design of the scheme since July 2019.

The consultation opens on Wednesday 24 June. It will run for five weeks, closing at 23:59 on Tuesday 28 July 2020

So I guess we have to wait two weeks to see what design changes there are.

The original proposal was fairly solid so I'm only expecting a few minor tweeks just so that they can say that they have listened to the original consultation. Now that the A14 is finished let's hope that this new scheme gets started ASAP.

[jackal]

The design guy didn't seem to know of the term 'stackabout' though. Is this just a term coined by people in this forum?

I think it is. Official/HE version: stacked roundabout, 3-level roundabout, 3-level stacked roundabout, …?

DMRB has it as "3 level roundabout."

Prompted by a post on the A14C2H Facebook page about the A428 Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet scheme, the project page on the HE website says:

Before we submit our application for development consent, we want your views on these proposed changes. These changes include:
• Changes to the development boundary (known as the Order limits)
• Changes to the design of the scheme since July 2019.

The consultation opens on Wednesday 24 June. It will run for five weeks, closing at 23:59 on Tuesday 28 July 2020

So I guess we have to wait two weeks to see what design changes there are.

The original proposal was fairly solid so I'm only expecting a few minor tweeks just so that they can say that they have listened to the original consultation. Now that the A14 is finished let's hope that this new scheme gets started ASAP.

Maybe they'll replace the 3 level roundabout, which is a pretty poor choice given the heavy right turn onto the A421.

[Truvelo]

Maybe they'll replace the 3 level roundabout, which is a pretty poor choice given the heavy right turn onto the A421.

Unless a lot more £ is going to be spent on additional bridges I can't see how a 3 level junction which provides freeflow for A1, A421 and north to west turn can be provided. Besides, the heavy right turn won't be so heavy when traffic from Cambridge uses the new road. The main flows will be through traffic on both roads which the stackabout will cope with. Of course, I would like to see some additional spaghetti but it could also go the other way, possibly a 2 level roundabout favouring just the A421 if the budget has to be reduced.

[jervi]

Maybe they'll replace the 3 level roundabout, which is a pretty poor choice given the heavy right turn onto the A421.

Unless a lot more £ is going to be spent on additional bridges I can't see how a 3 level junction which provides freeflow for A1, A421 and north to west turn can be provided. Besides, the heavy right turn won't be so heavy when traffic from Cambridge uses the new road. The main flows will be through traffic on both roads which the stackabout will cope with. Of course, I would like to see some additional spaghetti but it could go the other way, possibly a 2 level roundabout favouring just the A421 if the budget has to be reduced.

+1
Would say that a 2 Level roundabout (on the A421 through route) but with dedicated 2-lane free flow links to/from A421 (West) - A1 (North) would be better than the 3 Level roundabout, and cheaper.
Also for heaven's sake have the new route numbered A421 - and numbered as such all the way to the A14.

[A303Chris]

Here is the official Highways England press release for the new consultation.

It shows a CGI of the Black Cat Stackabout. I have to say can't see much point of a stackabout unless the A1 south and north to both bits of A1(M) are improved. These two sections Biggleswade to Black Cat (three roundabouts) and Black Cat to Buckden (one roundabout) are a mixture of 50 mph / 60 mph limits and of a poor quality. There doesn't seem anything on the cards. Although, it's good to future proof.

Although, being involved in a number of consultations in the past, I wonder if this is watered down to just a GSJ for the A428 to appease objectors.