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jcb336 wrote: ↑Mon May 06, 2019 14:19
Worthing is a national disgrace. Does the place have an MP? A functioning local authority?
It has both - but Worthing also has a lot of well off Conservative voters who are more than happy to create a massive political s**t storm at the merest hint of doing anything that might affect their house prices, views etc. The way the South Downs hug the northern fringes of the town (which is part the reason house prices are so high there) mean any improvements to the A27 will have to end up being close / through the urban area and thus will have a big impact locally - and thats even with the use of tunnelling to the west of the A24 to try and hide it as seen in the 1996 proposals.
Similarly the most logical improvement to Chichester (a Northern By-pass) has been relatedly ruled out mainly because of the Governments pathetic kowtowing to the very well off Conservative supporting owner of the Goodwood estate...
As ever the British mentality of leaving the hard bits to last makes things incredibly hard - had the difficult bits of the A27 been tackled first when opposition by the public at large to road schemes was less pronounced, then linking them together now would cause far less of a political problem.
I guess in the 1970s, traffic levels and the difficulty of providing improvements wasn’t seen as so much of an issue. The A27 was also a lot lower capacity then; the Havant-Chichester stretch hadn’t been built, so there was less pressure to improve the rest.
Perhaps that should’ve been left till last, instead.
If the 1996 plans can’t be reinstated, perhaps a new route could be followed.
From the Adur interchange, heading slightly towards Lancing College, then passing above North Lancing/Sompting etc. It would more obviously ‘crash into’ Findon Road, and the cemetery (and the golf course/neighbouring estates), but it would be much more aligned with the rest of the route.
I think it’s going to be too impractical to upgrade the A24/A27 multiplexed section, for all the well-known reasons. I don’t think you’d be able to dual Arundel Road too, even if it remains A27.
Berk wrote: ↑Tue May 07, 2019 01:44
If the 1996 plans can’t be reinstated, perhaps a new route could be followed.
From the Adur interchange, heading slightly towards Lancing College, then passing above North Lancing/Sompting etc. It would more obviously ‘crash into’ Findon Road, and the cemetery (and the golf course/neighbouring estates), but it would be much more aligned with the rest of the route.
Erm... that pretty much WAS the 1996 routing!
The section west of the A24 was going to be in a bored tunnel to minimise demolition - but that wasn't anywhere near good enough to pacify the locals.
Engineering wise its still perfectly do-able, though a bit more tunnelling might be wise to minimise its impact as it hugs the downs to get round Lancing
Berk wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 16:18
Thanks. It’s hard to keep track of because none of the plans have been archived online.
Oh yes they have. Click on the green download button in this link. This is a large document and you will have to go through it to find the plans which are towards the bottom. It shows several routes, including an online upgrade of the existing A27 which involves heavy demolition to squeeze in the GSJs.
Meanwhile in low cost, low regulation Norway, a contract for a 19km segment of motorway including a 7.8km long tunnel was signed yesterday.
For £414m.
That's about the twice the distance both in total and the tunnel that sorting out Worthing would need. How is it possible that a motorway in Norway can cost less per km including tunnelling than the UK can manage in flat countryside?
Herned wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 20:59
Meanwhile in low cost, low regulation Norway, a contract for a 19km segment of motorway including a 7.8km long tunnel was signed yesterday.
For £414m.
That's about the twice the distance both in total and the tunnel that sorting out Worthing would need. How is it possible that a motorway in Norway can cost less per km including tunnelling than the UK can manage in flat countryside?
Whilst you raise a relevant point about comparative costs, the northern parts of Worthing, sprawling into the South Downs, are not flat and the cost of urban land currently utilised for housing in the South East is not cheap.
Euan wrote: ↑Fri May 03, 2019 08:28
You would be averaging a speed of 30mph which, given the fact that much of the A27 along the route is dualled and that the M27 covers part of the route, sounds very poor indeed. I reckon that at peak times many of the at-grade roundabouts on the A27 must cause considerable delays to journeys.
There are several pinch points that mean 2 hours is an expected duration even at quieter times.
First of all is the stretch through Worthing which at its best is a suburban S2 road and at worst a series of retail outlets with a set of lights every 100 metres and can easily take 20 minutes. After a brief period of good progress you hit the lane drop at the Crossbush Roundabout and join the end of the crawl through Arundel.
Finally you hit the Chichester bypass. This in my opinion is a misnomer. In reality it is the southern half of a ring road, a bypass would have at most 3 junctions east west and south and they would be grade separated. As with most ring roads you have multiple roundabouts and a flat signalised junction at the eastern end. At each uncontrolled development has occurred. Housing developments in Chichester and its attractiveness have lead to considerable commuter traffic between Southampton, Havant and Chichester along the A27. The result is that the traffic flow on the A27 rises from 30k at Arundel to 50k from Chichester to Southampton. Adding extra lanes and GSJ's to the existing 'bypass' will only attract more. This lack of differentiation between local and strategic roads is a classic example of why the USA introduced the Interstate System and the UK the Motorway Network.
If the will (and money) were there to really fix it what would be needed is a new build M27 or A27 Expressway from a point east of Havant around the north of Chichester to the Shoreham bypass with a limited number of grade separated junctions such as Chichester (A286), Arundel (A284) and Worthing (A24). This CAN be done and was achieved in the North East between Thirsk and Jarrow with the A19 which for much of its route is new build D2 with GSJ's . The section that was upgraded online, mainly between Wolviston and Peterlee is of lower quality.
Something similar has happened between Cambridge and the M1 with the A428/A421 which started out as a collection of S2 A and B grade local roads and which have almost completed the transition to new build HQDC, the last section will be the A428 between Caxton Gibbet and the new A1 junction that will replace the Black Cat. This will be the first stage of the Oxford Cambridge Expressway,
This will of course never happen on the south coast between the Nimbys, the CPRE and land prices but I can dream. In the meantime the A27 will remain little more than a number of local roads of varying quality that happen to run along the south coast.
I grew up in Portsmouth and live in west Kent with much of my family in various parts of Hampshire. I am thus often faced with the M25/A3 vs A26/A27 option. The M25 route is, when flowing well a good option, but that’s rare. I tend to prefer the A27 because at least there’s alternative routes inland if anything goes wrong whereas turning off the M25 onto local roads such as the A25 tends to be an intolerable poor crawl through a string of Surrey commuter towns.
Fluid Dynamics wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 21:13
Whilst you raise a relevant point about comparative costs, the northern parts of Worthing, sprawling into the South Downs, are not flat and the cost of urban land currently utilised for housing in the South East is not cheap.
I am fully aware of the topography of Worthing, I shouldn't have mixed the two points: the UK seems incapable of building very simple (in engineering terms) roads for less than a very complicated road costs in a country famous for it's high costs.
A 7km long tunnel beneath Worthing would cross the entire built-up area, so the cost of urban land is irrelevant, you wouldn't need to buy any!
Fluid Dynamics wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2019 21:13Whilst you raise a relevant point about comparative costs, the northern parts of Worthing, sprawling into the South Downs, are not flat and the cost of urban land currently utilised for housing in the South East is not cheap.
I am fully aware of the topography of Worthing, I shouldn't have mixed the two points: the UK seems incapable of building very simple (in engineering terms) roads for less than a very complicated road costs in a country famous for it's high costs.
A 7km long tunnel beneath Worthing would cross the entire built-up area, so the cost of urban land is irrelevant, you wouldn't need to buy any!
I would not be at all surprised if this was due to the use, both of government-appointed consultants, and contractors invited to design and bid (as BOOT/DBFO operators).
Government is famous for bumping costs up, and they pay astronomical sums for goods and services that you or I could arrange much more cheaply. Despite knowing this, I’m not sure why exactly government contracts are so expensive/exclusive. They must be negotiating a relationship similar to private banking.
What is so frustrating (to me at least) with the excuse of the South Downs National Park is that for much of the boundary, the choice of the A27 was because it was a convenient point of reference, and not that the land right up to the northern edge was of more ecological merit than that to the southern edge
Would some sort of local distributor or relief road to the north of the city be an option? Use could be made of preexisting roads or the dismantled railway to create a route for local traffic to the north, leaving the bypass for long distance traffic.
Sorry if this has come up before but I have been looking at maps of the area and the idea occurred to me!
Berk wrote: ↑Mon Jun 10, 2019 21:48
Two words: Goodwood Racecourse...
Motor or Horses? My route would pass close to the former but nowhere near the latter.
The Goodwood Estate you mean? I'd think they would quite like the roads out there improved as it would make access to all their money making events better!
What's happening on the westbound approach to the Portfied Roundabout? The Highways England signs say "Carriageway widening", but it looks more like building a T-junction to provide direct access to a new housing estate.
Johnathan404 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 19, 2019 15:21
What's happening on the westbound approach to the Portfied Roundabout? The Highways England signs say "Carriageway widening", but it looks more like building a T-junction to provide direct access to a new housing estate.
