A47 Corridor improvement programme

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doebag
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by doebag »

Guyhirn could really do with a freeflow from A47 s/b to A141.
How are they proposing to widen the traffic lanes on the bridge ? Are they going to lose a footpath and the centre hatching ?
Guyhirn has IMO been noticeably worse since local traffic going A47 w/b has to do a 360' at the roundabout
ais523
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by ais523 »

There's enough room on the proposed new roundabout to freeflow all three first-exit movements. That really should happen, given that the current use of the tarmac seems to be to allow people to drive to the centre of the roundabout and get stuck.
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skiddaw05
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by skiddaw05 »

jackal wrote:Exactly, the merge length will be significantly extended and tigertailed (hence the widening of the railway bridge), plus the merging traffic will be moving faster as it will be coming from a 50mph freeflow link rather than from a standing start. A lot of the time it is the mismatch between merge and mainline speeds that causes problems.
Actually the bridge widening proposals could be the undoing of this. IME Network Rail are not renowned for their cooperation when it comes to highway matters and I can see this part being compromised leading to a substandard merge length. We had a similar thing (though not due to NR) at the north end of the Wymondham bypass.
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roadtester
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by roadtester »

Article from the Lynn News (King's Lynn) about the consultation - including the A47 Alliance saying what bits they want done next:

http://www.lynnnews.co.uk/news/public-c ... -1-7873657
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jackal
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by jackal »

The list included full dualling of the stretch from Tilney All Saints to East Winch, which would also require the widening of the Hardwick flyover in Lynn.
Next they'll be saying they want it turned into a proper GSJ :o
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Berk
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by Berk »

jackal wrote:
The list included full dualling of the stretch from Tilney All Saints to East Winch, which would also require the widening of the Hardwick flyover in Lynn.
Next they'll be saying they want it turned into a proper GSJ :o
It's a fair old point, though. It looks odd on a map - a bit like the A590 at Meathop, caught between two dialling schemes, and it 'just missed out'.

The Wisbech bypass needs seeing to, though. As well as the southern/western approach to Wisbech. I'll leave the bit across the Fens, and east of Lynn for another day - they'll be new builds, no question.
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jackal
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by jackal »

The full A47 Alliance wishlist:

Current Priorities for the A47 Alliance (2020-2025)
Norfolk Acle Straight Dualling £120m
Norfolk Tilney to East Winch Dualling (Including Hardwick flyover dualling) £140m (plus Hardwick flyover cost)
Cambridgeshire Guyhirn to Wisbech Dualling £134m
Cambridgeshire A1101 Elm High Roundabout improvement scheme £11m
Cambridgeshire B198 Cromwell Road Roundabout improvement scheme £4.2m
Peterborough Eye Roundabout improvement scheme £250k-£500k
Peterborough J15 Improvement Scheme £5m-£10m
Total Cost £414-£420m

Longer Term Priorities (Post 2025)
Suffolk Lowestoft Crossing
Norfolk / Suffolk Great Yarmouth / Lowestoft Dualling
Norfolk Great Yarmouth Third River Crossing
Norfolk Dereham to Swaffham Dualling
Norfolk East Winch to Swaffham Dualling
Cambridgeshire Wisbech Bypass Dualling
Cambridgeshire/Peterborough Thorney to Guyhirn Dualling
Cambridgeshire Thorney to Peterborough Dualling
Entire Route Full Grade Separation

http://www.a47alliance.co.uk/our-work/s ... riorities/
bart
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by bart »

I don't actually think the Hardwick flyover needs dualling. So much traffic enters and leaves the Lynn bypass using the west-facing slips that I don't think this is a major need, apart from aesthetically.
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by Fenlander »

The other end of the Kings Lynn bypass could do with its flyover finishing, the one where the A47 turns left at a roundabout but the A17 continues onwards, via the same roundabout.
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c2R
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by c2R »

Fenlander wrote:The other end of the Kings Lynn bypass could do with its flyover finishing, the one where the A47 turns left at a roundabout but the A17 continues onwards, via the same roundabout.

Whatever happens here needs to tie in with the A47 dualling somehow. It's a strange one given the A47 TOTSOs currently - perhaps a trumpet slightly to the west to tie in with an upgraded A47 should be built, with the existing junction catering for local traffic.... what doesn't help is the A17 not being trunk, when it really should be.
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by Fenlander »

The missing flyovers would greatly help eastbound A17 traffic as it has to fight with A47 east already on the roundabout. Removing the westbound A17 traffic from the roundabout would also improve the A47 east too as they're both entering it at the same point, savvy A17 users use the right hand lane but not all do. A47 west could then have a dedicated slip lane on and off the roundabout.
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c2R
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by c2R »

Fenlander wrote:The missing flyovers would greatly help eastbound A17 traffic as it has to fight with A47 east already on the roundabout. Removing the westbound A17 traffic from the roundabout would also improve the A47 east too as they're both entering it at the same point, savvy A17 users use the right hand lane but not all do. A47 west could then have a dedicated slip lane on and off the roundabout.
I'd love to see the flyover finished, and not by clearing the now settled earth mounds as was done at Hardwick. Clearly traffic modelling would need to be done, but one of the problems I experience in the evening rush hour is A17 traffic queueing from two lanes into one west of the junction - so unless the A17 was also dualled, the BCR for the flyover scheme might not be very good.

A short term solution might be to sign the diverge earlier and put lane 1 w/b into a filter, meaning A17 users would all be in the right hand lane, and add part time signals to the roundabout to help e/b traffic.
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Fenlander
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by Fenlander »

c2R wrote:A short term solution might be to sign the diverge earlier and put lane 1 w/b into a filter, meaning A17 users would all be in the right hand lane, and add part time signals to the roundabout to help e/b traffic.
It surprises me that the first part of that hasn't been done already, it's only a few signs and paint. The p/t traffic lights could help A17 traffic onto the roundabout but the tail of the A47 traffic would then be blocking the other A17 flow. Putting in even one side of the flyover would solve that.
I know it's more of an A17 problem than an A47 but the more you do with the A17 traffic the better it is for the A47 traffic.
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Berk
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by Berk »

Never mind A17, what about A149 traffic?? How much of that has to join the A47 before it can pootle off on its miserable S2 northwards??

Hardwick shouldn't be looked at in isolation - the wider picture needs looking at, all of Lynn's traffic hotspots need fixing to do a proper job.
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skiddaw05
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by skiddaw05 »

Berk wrote:Never mind A17, what about A149 traffic?? How much of that has to join the A47 before it can pootle off on its miserable S2 northwards??

Hardwick shouldn't be looked at in isolation - the wider picture needs looking at, all of Lynn's traffic hotspots need fixing to do a proper job.
King's Lynn's geographical location on the SE corner of the Wash means it will always tend to be prone to congestion unless you do something really drastic. One proposal which you'll never hear mentioned now was for a 3rd crossing of the Great Ouse north of the town, though I have no idea where it would have gone after that.

Another proposal on the never never is dualling the A149 eastern bypass (as we know this was reduced from S3 to S2 a while ago) which I expect would remove the queues which currently back up regularly onto the eastbound A47 west of the Hardwick flyover.
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c2R
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by c2R »

skiddaw05 wrote: Another proposal on the never never is dualling the A149 eastern bypass (as we know this was reduced from S3 to S2 a while ago) which I expect would remove the queues which currently back up regularly onto the eastbound A47 west of the Hardwick flyover.
That must be about 20 years ago now :( D2 might help with extra stacking lanes at the roundabouts... The whole area needs investment desperately.
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jackal
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

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doebag
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by doebag »

GUYHIRN
I see they mention improved pedestrian access, which I assume is a new footbridge, thus allowing the full width of the existing bridge to be used for a second e/b lane up to the roundabout. They use the phrase 'widen the carriageway' not widen the bridge.

Question. Are there any reasons why the old section of A141 March Road [that is now stopped up] could not be used as a southbound A47/A141 freeflow ? I know the roundabout is at a higher level, but this would not be a problem for a straight through connection
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skiddaw05
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by skiddaw05 »

I would have thought a footbridge would be far too expensive to consider and there doesn't seem to be any reference to one in their document. However widening the carriageway across the bridge must inevitably reduce the available footway width. The existing carriageway, even with the hard strips and centre hatch, doesn't look wide enough for three lanes.

Maybe, I thought, they might remove one of the footways, possibly widen the other slightly, and have some crossing facilities elsewhere. (but would that play havoc with the bridge loading?). It would be nice to know a bit more.
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c2R
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Re: A47 Corridor improvement programme

Post by c2R »

Sorry if this sounds a stupid question, but why can't a lightweight footbridge construction just be bolted to the side of the existing bridge with both of the existing footways then converted into a third traffic lane for queueing?
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