M49 Avonmouth junction

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DB617
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by DB617 »

gepree68 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:55
DB617 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:21 Perhaps this has been discussed previously, but do we think this junction will give rise to some residential cookie cutter developments off the east side of the junction, forming some weird car dependent new village near Easter Compton? I can't see an entire motorway junction having a total lack of circling development vultures.
2020-03-13 M49 J1.png
On the roundabout above M49 J1 (see photo) there is a stub on the bottom left of the photo (on the East side of M49) that in the future could be connected to B4055 near Easter Compton.
Normally I'd say there's zero chance of Bristol Council not taking up the option to build a development road there, but then again, Bristol is one of the places at least trying to take the 'climate emergency' movement seriously. Which would preclude any construction in such a car dependent place.
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vlad
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by vlad »

Steven wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 07:49
M5Lenzar wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 07:31 Was the M49 number even necessary? It was at the time just a (very) long sliproad.
Yes - the original guidance for whether motorway spurs got their own number back in the day was whether it was longer than a mile or not.
"The day"? It opened in the mid-1990s, not the golden age of motorway construction!
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Bryn666
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by Bryn666 »

DB617 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 13:18
gepree68 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:55
DB617 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:21 Perhaps this has been discussed previously, but do we think this junction will give rise to some residential cookie cutter developments off the east side of the junction, forming some weird car dependent new village near Easter Compton? I can't see an entire motorway junction having a total lack of circling development vultures.
2020-03-13 M49 J1.png
On the roundabout above M49 J1 (see photo) there is a stub on the bottom left of the photo (on the East side of M49) that in the future could be connected to B4055 near Easter Compton.
Normally I'd say there's zero chance of Bristol Council not taking up the option to build a development road there, but then again, Bristol is one of the places at least trying to take the 'climate emergency' movement seriously. Which would preclude any construction in such a car dependent place.
It won't be entirely car dependent as there's quite a substantial walking/cycling route across that junction which is entirely grade separated from the roundabout! About time that IAN on active travel design saw some use.
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Isleworth1961
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by Isleworth1961 »

DB617 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 13:18
gepree68 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:55
DB617 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:21 Perhaps this has been discussed previously, but do we think this junction will give rise to some residential cookie cutter developments off the east side of the junction, forming some weird car dependent new village near Easter Compton? I can't see an entire motorway junction having a total lack of circling development vultures.
2020-03-13 M49 J1.png
On the roundabout above M49 J1 (see photo) there is a stub on the bottom left of the photo (on the East side of M49) that in the future could be connected to B4055 near Easter Compton.
Normally I'd say there's zero chance of Bristol Council not taking up the option to build a development road there, but then again, Bristol is one of the places at least trying to take the 'climate emergency' movement seriously. Which would preclude any construction in such a car dependent place.
Except it's not within the Bristol (City) Council area - it's South Gloucestershire.
DB617
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by DB617 »

Isleworth1961 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 22:00
DB617 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 13:18
gepree68 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:55
2020-03-13 M49 J1.png
On the roundabout above M49 J1 (see photo) there is a stub on the bottom left of the photo (on the East side of M49) that in the future could be connected to B4055 near Easter Compton.
Normally I'd say there's zero chance of Bristol Council not taking up the option to build a development road there, but then again, Bristol is one of the places at least trying to take the 'climate emergency' movement seriously. Which would preclude any construction in such a car dependent place.
Except it's not within the Bristol (City) Council area - it's South Gloucestershire.
Oh bother.
WSAtkins
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by WSAtkins »

Once the Spine Road through the development is completed it will be renamed the A403. It was originally intended to run north/south from Pilning to Cabot Park, but the piecemeal development will probably mean the Spine Road will be truncated north of Severn Road, at least in the short term.
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by Micro The Maniac »

WSAtkins wrote: Sat Oct 10, 2020 20:53 Once the Spine Road through the development is completed it will be renamed the A403. It was originally intended to run north/south from Pilning to Cabot Park, but the piecemeal development will probably mean the Spine Road will be truncated north of Severn Road, at least in the short term.
A three digit A seems a bit OTT for a distribution road?!

Any hints as to what will happen to St Andrew's Road or Severn Road (the existing A403)? In some respects, renumbering as an extension of A4 would make sense...

Mind you, renumbering the M5 spur that is now a continuation of the M49 would make more sense...
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gepree68
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by gepree68 »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 10:55 Mind you, renumbering the M5 spur that is now a continuation of the M49 would make more sense...
As long as they rename both the M5 J18 spur and the existing M49 motorway to M39 :twisted:
AtoB
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by AtoB »

gepree68 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:55
DB617 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:21 Perhaps this has been discussed previously, but do we think this junction will give rise to some residential cookie cutter developments off the east side of the junction, forming some weird car dependent new village near Easter Compton? I can't see an entire motorway junction having a total lack of circling development vultures.
download/file.php?id=16148&t=1
On the roundabout above M49 J1 (see photo) there is a stub on the bottom left of the photo (on the East side of M49) that in the future could be connected to B4055 near Easter Compton.
Well this south-facing road stub is interesting. To quote Debaser - this may suggest a 'different beast' may be in the offing -
Debaser wrote: Sat Nov 18, 2017 21:28 Having worked on a small part of this scheme, the original (and presumably current) intention is as stated in the public exhibition info in the OP; to open up development land and, by creating a direct route to the M49, take HGVs in particular off the local road network, improving its safety. That's the basis of all the assumptions made, afaik. Wider links to here or there on the wider highway network haven't, to my knowledge, been discussed as they would make this a different beast entirely.

And to quote me, could something like this be the next move, I wonder ? - M49 / J1 to (eventually) Filton / A38 -

A403toA38.gif
A403toA38.gif (66.93 KiB) Viewed 3693 times
DavidBrown
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by DavidBrown »

AtoB wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 16:07 And to quote me, could something like this be the next move, I wonder ? - M49 / J1 to (eventually) Filton / A38 -
Good luck plugging yet another road into J17. It's hopeless enough as it is, and couldn't handle another road without a total rebuild. Sending it towards J16 would be more likely IMO. But the best solution of all is to just improve and widen the M4 between the M49 and M5 instead.

I can't remember if I've mentioned this before, but clearly something is planned east of the new M49 junction. A stub similar to the one on the other side of the junction which we know will link into the business park has been built, and the blacked out signs on the slip roads have room for destinations that way. Whether it's a link to the B4055, or just an expansion of the Avonmouth estate, awaits to be seen.
booshank
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by booshank »

DavidBrown wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 16:17
AtoB wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 16:07 And to quote me, could something like this be the next move, I wonder ? - M49 / J1 to (eventually) Filton / A38 -
Good luck plugging yet another road into J17. It's hopeless enough as it is, and couldn't handle another road without a total rebuild. Sending it towards J16 would be more likely IMO. But the best solution of all is to just improve and widen the M4 between the M49 and M5 instead.

I can't remember if I've mentioned this before, but clearly something is planned east of the new M49 junction. A stub similar to the one on the other side of the junction which we know will link into the business park has been built, and the blacked out signs on the slip roads have room for destinations that way. Whether it's a link to the B4055, or just an expansion of the Avonmouth estate, awaits to be seen.
I don't think you'd really want you dump more traffic onto M5 J16 as it's already notoriously poorly sited and has a horrible short weaving stretch between it and the Almondsbury interchange. The M4 west of Almondsbury could definitely be widened - the lack of lane gain from the M5 is quite glaring.
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

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Bryn666
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 09:21 Still no sign of progress:

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economi ... n-19578258
Truly embarrassing, and maybe this will teach local authorities and Highways England that 'development at any cost' is a stupid policy, because the infrastructure you need to facilitate such nonsense never gets delivered.
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by mikehindsonevans »

jackal wrote: Fri Jan 08, 2021 09:21 Still no sign of progress:

https://www.business-live.co.uk/economi ... n-19578258
Thanks for posting. What an impressive picture of a "road to nowhere". At least the pathway through the junction, for NMU traffic, is well-planned, wide and gently-sloped.
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DB617
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by DB617 »

Why do I get the feeling some of this may be intransigence on the part of SGCC? Surely if the council offered to pay entirely for the road - as they would be anyway if it was their land - the owner would have no problem? Are they insisting that Delta foot the bill, I wonder, because the infrastructure 'benefits their tenants'? Which of course we know is not the view of local businesses who just use the existing M5 and M4 link.
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by Micro The Maniac »

How quickly do you think the road would be built, if SGCC were to publish draft TROs for a 7.5t weight limit on Severn Road, west of the M49?
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by Bryn666 »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 09:50 How quickly do you think the road would be built, if SGCC were to publish draft TROs for a 7.5t weight limit on Severn Road, west of the M49?
Given there'd certainly be no enforcement it would be nothing more than an empty gesture.

The real question you and others have rightly asked before I'm sure is how the planning departments of local councils and Highways England have managed to collectively drop such a large gonad.

Quite clearly we need to abolish the type of planning condition that says "you don't need to do x until y happens"; it should be "until you do x, y doesn't happen".
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IAN
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by IAN »

GSV shows a large area of undeveloped land to the east of the junction. Perhaps it would be feasible to allocate it for housing on condition that the developer completes the access road.
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Micro The Maniac
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by Micro The Maniac »

But the access road was a condition of the development to the west
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IAN
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Re: M49 Avonmouth junction

Post by IAN »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Sun Jan 10, 2021 19:29 But the access road was a condition of the development to the west
AIUI that's the problem. It was NOT a condition and therefore no one can be forced to build the access road on the west side of the roundabout.
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