M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

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fras
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by fras »

Big L wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 08:39
fras wrote: Sat Mar 02, 2019 00:12 I can't see how this scheme can offer any improvement at all. At the moment, if I come off the M6 going north, to go north on the new A556 road, I have two sets of traffic lights to pass. With this scheme it is still two sets, so no improvement...
Which set of lights are you forgetting? One at the top of the off slip, one where the A556 from the West joins the roundabout, one where the M6 southbound off slip joins the roundabout. That's three.

Edit. Sometimes I get stopped by all 3 sets of lights, sometimes none at all.
Doh ! It must be the Auchentoshen malt whisky I was enjoying ! Yes, you're right. Of course living in Crewe where we have been "enjoying" two signalised roundabouts for over 10 years, one at last now unsignalled, I am always suspicious of complex signalised flat junctions with heavy and conflicting traffic flows. I reckon Truvelo has the right idea, but I suppose the budget doesn't stretch to it.
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A303Chris
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by A303Chris »

jackal wrote: Fri Mar 01, 2019 19:49 "On 21 February 2019, the Department for Transport (DfT) published an Order under section 10 of the Highway Act 1980." Construction is to start by Spring 2020.

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/projects/m6-junction-19/
I have nothing against the scheme but why no joined up thinking!!!!. Three years to build the A556 bypass, as soon as it finishes three years to do the M6 smart motorway works and now 2 years to build this, with the obvious 50mph and narrow lanes on the M6.

Why not do this when they did the A556 works. Did a decent job at the northern end with the M56 why not this end.
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Johnathan404
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Johnathan404 »

A303Chris wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 13:10 Why not do this when they did the A556 works. Did a decent job at the northern end with the M56 why not this end.
If you remember the M6 J19 upgrade was included as part of the predecessor to the smart motorway scheme. When that was watered down the whole thing fell apart.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Bryn666 »

Johnathan404 wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 16:58
A303Chris wrote: Mon Mar 04, 2019 13:10 Why not do this when they did the A556 works. Did a decent job at the northern end with the M56 why not this end.
If you remember the M6 J19 upgrade was included as part of the predecessor to the smart motorway scheme. When that was watered down the whole thing fell apart.
Yes basically J19 was dependent on the M6 scheme which even as late as 2013 when the DCOs were being pursued was still uncertain.

So in true fashion nothing was done.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

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Statutory instruments published this week: The A556 Trunk Road (M6 Junction 19 Improvement Northbound and Southbound Link Roads) Order 2019
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/1147/note/made

The explanatory note also includes a new definition of free flow:
Highways England Company Limited are authorised to construct two new link roads of the A556 Trunk Road as described in the above Schedule, running through the centre of the A556 Trunk Road roundabout at M6 Junction 19, and crossing over the M6 Motorway on a new bridge. This Order designates the new link roads as trunk roads from the date this Order comes into force and Highways England Company Limited as the highways authority for the new link roads from that date.

The new link roads will provide a more direct route through the roundabout for traffic travelling from the M6 Motorway southbound to the A556 Principal Road southbound, and the M6 Motorway northbound to the A556 Trunk Road northbound, respectively, removing the need for such directional traffic to use the circulatory carriageway of the A556 Trunk Road roundabout.

These additional link roads, together with the light control of traffic movement at the A556 Trunk Road roundabout entry and exit points, will provide greater capacity and free flow of traffic movement at the M6 Junction 19/A556 Trunk Road roundabout junction.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

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It'll move more vehicles than the current roundabout but it won't be a free flow junction.

HE don't help themselves with their spin.

Anyone who still thinks J19 is worse than some of the other horror junctions, e.g. Gatley Crossroads needs a reality check. I've never been delayed by any significant amount at J19 ever whereas I've been delayed by traffic leaving the M60 onto the A34 times many.
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jackal
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by jackal »

J19 rebuilt will indeed be a lot better than Gatley Crossroads or hundreds of other junctions on urban arterials. But still it will be far short of the standard for comparably important junctions in virtually all other developed countries.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

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But on the massive shopping list of improvements the UK needs to deal with M6 J19 just doesn't rank high up on it.

Plenty of other M6 junctions have much worse traffic problems but HE doesn't care as it isn't between trunk roads. They're quite content to have chaos at interfaces with the pleb network.
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Big L
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Big L »

Work appears to have started. Lane closure on the roundabout and some groundworks within.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Big L »

M6 has now gained a 50 limit and Specs.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Micro The Maniac »

Big L wrote: Wed May 20, 2020 13:25 M6 has now gained a 50 limit and Specs.
The irony being they've not long taken them down, from the J16-J19 works...
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

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First HE update on the scheme with drone photos can be found here
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by jackal »

This design is basically a bizarre mixture of SPUI and roundabout. An actual SPUI would have one less phase for the main right turns and two less phases for the secondary right turns, i.e., it would be better in every way.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

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Well, I'd say it has only the tiniest bit of single-point DNA. Isn't this design called a Double Banana Burger? It's a pathetic waste of 43 million pounds.

Of course, it will help - these dead-end minor tinkerings always do. But each one incrementally narrows the scope for future rational options (eg. M1J24's sad history). Anecdotally, it sounds to me like it's not too bad at present, so why not leave it alone for a few more years and then do it properly? Alas, it's too late now - the concrete's pouring.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

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Peter Freeman wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:59 Well, I'd say it has only the tiniest bit of single-point DNA. Isn't this design called a Double Banana Burger? It's a pathetic waste of 43 million pounds.

Of course, it will help - these dead-end minor tinkerings always do. But each one incrementally narrows the scope for future rational options (eg. M1J24's sad history). Anecdotally, it sounds to me like it's not too bad at present, so why not leave it alone for a few more years and then do it properly? Alas, it's too late now - the concrete's pouring.
Reason the cost is so high is the cost of the Traffic Management, which could easily be 25% of the total cost.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Bryn666 »

Peter Freeman wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:59 Well, I'd say it has only the tiniest bit of single-point DNA. Isn't this design called a Double Banana Burger? It's a pathetic waste of 43 million pounds.

Of course, it will help - these dead-end minor tinkerings always do. But each one incrementally narrows the scope for future rational options (eg. M1J24's sad history). Anecdotally, it sounds to me like it's not too bad at present, so why not leave it alone for a few more years and then do it properly? Alas, it's too late now - the concrete's pouring.
It's very unlikely traffic volumes on the A556 will grow to the point that much beyond this will need doing. The old roundabout rarely caused any major delays even with the old road, I'm not actually sure what HE are doing here other than spending money for the sake of it.

There are several junctions on the M60 that are crying out for £43m to be spent on them.
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fras
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

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Bryn666 wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 13:43
Peter Freeman wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:59 Well, I'd say it has only the tiniest bit of single-point DNA. Isn't this design called a Double Banana Burger? It's a pathetic waste of 43 million pounds.

Of course, it will help - these dead-end minor tinkerings always do. But each one incrementally narrows the scope for future rational options (eg. M1J24's sad history). Anecdotally, it sounds to me like it's not too bad at present, so why not leave it alone for a few more years and then do it properly? Alas, it's too late now - the concrete's pouring.
It's very unlikely traffic volumes on the A556 will grow to the point that much beyond this will need doing. The old roundabout rarely caused any major delays even with the old road, I'm not actually sure what HE are doing here other than spending money for the sake of it.

There are several junctions on the M60 that are crying out for £43m to be spent on them.
With the old road, the traffic was spread out over several botlenecks between the M6 and the M56, so, yes it merely contributed to delay, but now with free-flow at the M56 end, it becomes the place where traffic will pile up. I agree the works are essentially a very expensive spatchcock, but that is roads infrastructure management in the UK. Do as little as possible and as infrequently as possible. This is why, since Kenneth Clarke, Chancellor in the Major government declared they wer not going to build any more roads as "they only fill up with traffic", we are in such a mess.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Peter Freeman »

fras wrote: Tue Dec 01, 2020 14:35 ... Kenneth Clarke, Chancellor in the Major government declared they were not going to build any more roads as "they only fill up with traffic" ...
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Big L »

Steelwork has appeared.
20210111_104324.jpg
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by wrinkly »

The scheme page has a video of how the beams will be placed over the weekend after next and the one after that:

https://highwaysengland.co.uk/our-work/ ... nction-19/
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