M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

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Truvelo
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Truvelo »

Hopefully this will just be a sticking plaster solution and a fuller scheme will be announced in due course. I'm thinking of M1 J24 where a similar scheme for A50 to A453 south was completed last year only to be made redundant a year or two from now when the freeflow links open.
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jackal
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by jackal »

There's the rub. The M1 J24 improvement cost £5.6m, so can be written off as a stop-gap. Not so easy to do for a £50m scheme like M6 J19.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by fras »

OK, I know it would cost more, to make the new links as flyovers to the existing roundabout. This assumes the proposed links on the flat represent the main flows. There would then be no need to revisit the junction in a few years time as the important flows would be free-flow and removed from the roundabout. Spending £50 million is not a spatchcock, but its not generous either.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by hjp766 »

Unless they bulldoze j19 and make it free flow do not use the 556 S/B.S/B queuing from M56 to J19 is now the norm. It makes a car park look free flowing.

This then snarls the NB 556 from Northwich such that it is now faster to us the A49 M56 combo
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Bryn666 »

There have been recurring issues with signalling of the roundabout which has caused locking.

The A556 sb isn't actually governed by signals so the problems are the detector/sync issues with the M6 NB exit.

Some box junctions and rigorous enforcement would help.
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ais523
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by ais523 »

hjp766 wrote:Unless they bulldoze j19 and make it free flow do not use the 556 S/B.S/B queuing from M56 to J19 is now the norm. It makes a car park look free flowing.
Fixing that hardly requires bulldozing the junction. You could freeflow that particular movement with a filter lane (assuming that most of the traffic is aiming for M6 southbound, which seems like a fairly safe assumption). In general, if a left turn is locking up at a major junction, something is badly wrong.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Big L »

ais523 wrote:
hjp766 wrote:Unless they bulldoze j19 and make it free flow do not use the 556 S/B.S/B queuing from M56 to J19 is now the norm. It makes a car park look free flowing.
Fixing that hardly requires bulldozing the junction. You could freeflow that particular movement with a filter lane (assuming that most of the traffic is aiming for M6 southbound, which seems like a fairly safe assumption). In general, if a left turn is locking up at a major junction, something is badly wrong.
There is a free flow filter lane but it hammers straight into 20 miles of congested roadworks.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Bryn666 »

Yes, the biggest problem is the sheer inadequacy of the M6 now.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by mikehindsonevans »

Big L wrote:
ais523 wrote:
hjp766 wrote:Unless they bulldoze j19 and make it free flow do not use the 556 S/B.S/B queuing from M56 to J19 is now the norm. It makes a car park look free flowing.
Fixing that hardly requires bulldozing the junction. You could freeflow that particular movement with a filter lane (assuming that most of the traffic is aiming for M6 southbound, which seems like a fairly safe assumption). In general, if a left turn is locking up at a major junction, something is badly wrong.
There is a free flow filter lane but it hammers straight into 20 miles of congested roadworks.
"Hammer" being a slight exaggeration give the present congestion, but a good statement of desire. We have followed this debate (and the A556 development and opening) with interest, but will use M6J18 and the A50 next time we visit the area.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by jackal »

Not to worry, they are 'fixing' that problem by removing the one bit of freeflow at the junction :roll:
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by A320Driver »

This is utter madness...why go to all the expense of building two new bridges over the M6 which could instead be used as part of a proper freeflow link between M6S and A556N?

Tourists must think we have no idea....and they would be right to conclude that.

This will be straight into CBRD bad junctions as soon as it's built.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote:Not to worry, they are 'fixing' that problem by removing the one bit of freeflow at the junction :roll:

M6 A556 - Copy.PNG
http://assets.highways.gov.uk/roads/roa ... +Final.pdf
Everyone is saying this is too complicated, etc, but the critical movements have one fewer set of signals to pass through. This alone will make a massive difference, not that J19 was ever the problem. The problem was the presence of the Mere and Bucklow Hill signals, and that's now gone away.

There are far worse junctions on the network than M6 J19 and this fix, whilst annoying the purists who are GSJ or bust types, will solve most of the issues here.

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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Jeni »

Bryn666 wrote: There are far worse junctions on the network than M6 J19 and this fix, whilst annoying the purists who are GSJ or bust types, will solve most of the issues here.
Most of the issues? There aren't any! I'm not even sure why they're wasting money building this.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Bryn666 »

Jeni wrote:
Bryn666 wrote: There are far worse junctions on the network than M6 J19 and this fix, whilst annoying the purists who are GSJ or bust types, will solve most of the issues here.
Most of the issues? There aren't any! I'm not even sure why they're wasting money building this.
Because a 2 minute delay at 5pm seems to mean this is more important than other junctions in the NW that have 10 min delays off-peak. I'm looking at you, Kearsley.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Arcuarius »

guvvaA303 wrote:This will be straight into CBRD bad junctions as soon as it's built.
I doubt it - I'm still waiting for M4/M32/A4174!!

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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Bryn666 »

Also I suspect the removal of the free-flow lane is due to its geometry. It's already proving to catch out idiots who can't look more than 30 yards in front of their Sat Nav.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Jeni »

Bryn666 wrote:Because a 2 minute delay at 5pm seems to mean this is more important than other junctions in the NW that have 10 min delays off-peak. I'm looking at you, Kearsley.
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jackal
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by jackal »

A couple of rejected alternatives, the first of which is literally a SABRE sketch drawn up to professional standards!

https://www.scribd.com/document/3619475 ... ev-1-Final
https://www.scribd.com/document/3619477 ... ev-1-Final
Fluid Dynamics
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Fluid Dynamics »

jackal wrote:A couple of rejected alternatives, the first of which is literally a SABRE sketch drawn up to professional standards!

https://www.scribd.com/document/3619475 ... ev-1-Final
https://www.scribd.com/document/3619477 ... ev-1-Final
That first one is mine. Strange I only posted it upstream in this thread, never responded to the consultation.
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Re: M6 Junction 19 'improvements'

Post by Benny »

The thing I don't get is how building the new A556 road actually made this roundabout worse. There is a free flow lane onto M6 (S) which sacrificed good access to the old A556 (B5569) and lets be honest a lot of the traffic on the A556 is aiming for the M6 (S) so why is it now harder to travel through it?

As a % how many vehicles leaving the M6 at J19 are wanting to travel West on the A556? I doubt its as much as those wishing to travel East. Maybe they should have just built the new A556 as a spur of the M6 just leading to the Motorway and left the old road for people wishing to travel to Northwich etc
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