Third Menai Crossing (consultation)

[AndyB]

I can only speak for autumn 2009, but in one week in September I don't recall any queues on my way across the bridge in both directions at any time of day, except at rush hour which I was avoiding anyway (even then, the day I was coming back from Caernarfon to Llangefni at 5pm was absolutely fine!)

I've done three trips since - April 2010 eastbound in the morning, August 2012 eastbound late night in horrible weather, and August 2016 westbound when after the A494, the Britannia Bridge was a doddle.

[Chris5156]

To return to a point made much earlier in the thread...

I'm fairly sure the preferred option in the previous consultation was a new bridge on the east side, thus for mainland-bound traffic.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit of a shame? I've no objection to a new bridge, and indeed I support it wholeheartedly, but if the new bridge were on the west side then the view of the existing (very handsome) bridge would still be available from the east - which is where most people will see it.

Obviously there may be engineering reasons why a new bridge on the west side would be more difficult or expensive to build, but all other things being equal I wonder whether putting the new bridge behind the existing landmark, rather than in front of it, would be better.

[Big L]

To return to a point made much earlier in the thread...

I'm fairly sure the preferred option in the previous consultation was a new bridge on the east side, thus for mainland-bound traffic.

Am I the only one who thinks this is a bit of a shame? I've no objection to a new bridge, and indeed I support it wholeheartedly, but if the new bridge were on the west side then the view of the existing (very handsome) bridge would still be available from the east - which is where most people will see it.

Obviously there may be engineering reasons why a new bridge on the west side would be more difficult or expensive to build, but all other things being equal I wonder whether putting the new bridge behind the existing landmark, rather than in front of it, would be better.

But we don't just build bridges any more. We build architectural statements that just happen to also be bridges. Whoever the architect is will not want another bridge blocking their work.

[AndyB]

Having a look on Google maps, I see that Treborth athletics ground is in the way to the East, and farmers' fields and electricity pylons to the West. To my eyes, a westbound bridge would fit easily between the existing Britannia bridge and the pylons, but architects might think there were inadequate clearances for construction and an eastbound bridge may therefore be forced.

[Chris Bertram]

There were no ferries or similar over the Menai, so I assume any HGVs would have had to squeeze through the original bridge.

Until the 1950s, according to the SABRE wiki, the two parts of the B4419, one in Caernarfon and one on Anglesey, were joined by a ferry. However, this seems to have been a passenger ferry only, so it is slightly puzzling that the roads either end had to have the same number. Perhaps it was a vehicle ferry earlier on.

[KeithW]

Having a look on Google maps, I see that Treborth athletics ground is in the way to the East, and farmers' fields and electricity pylons to the West. To my eyes, a westbound bridge would fit easily between the existing Britannia bridge and the pylons, but architects might think there were inadequate clearances for construction and an eastbound bridge may therefore be forced.

It might be simpler and cheaper to move the pylons especially now that the Wylfa power station has closed.

[AndyB]

I would doubt it would be cheaper - aren't those the primary supply for Anglesey? In any case, compulsory purchase of two playing fields will be a lot cheaper than paying the current owners of the infrastructure to move the transmission towers.

[rhyds]

The pylons are staying and a new line is going in to connect Wylfa Newydd (New Wylfa) to the grid at Pentir.

[vlad]

There were no ferries or similar over the Menai, so I assume any HGVs would have had to squeeze through the original bridge.

Until the 1950s, according to the SABRE wiki, the two parts of the B4419, one in Caernarfon and one on Anglesey, were joined by a ferry. However, this seems to have been a passenger ferry only, so it is slightly puzzling that the roads either end had to have the same number. Perhaps it was a vehicle ferry earlier on.

Good question. I think this post was my main source for the B4419 ferry only carrying passengers. Although it's possible that scholarship has changed in the past few years I don't really think there would have been much need for the ferry to carry vehicles anyway, unless it was bikes only or something.

[KeithW]

I would doubt it would be cheaper - aren't those the primary supply for Anglesey? In any case, compulsory purchase of two playing fields will be a lot cheaper than paying the current owners of the infrastructure to move the transmission towers.

The power needs of the 68,000 people of Anglesey would not require those towers. They were built for 2 reasons

1) Supply power to the Aluminium Smelter which closed in 2009
2) Take away the power produced by the Wylfa Nuclear Power Station which closed in 2015

IF a new power station is built at Wylfa the current plan is to build a new link.
http://www2.nationalgrid.com/UK/In-your ... rth-Wales/

Overhead power transmission lines really are not that expensive, costs vary between £ 2 and 4 million per km
and looking at Google maps you are probably only talking about swapping out 2 or 3 pylons. A more expensive but politically more acceptable would be to replace the overhead lines with a buried Gas Insulated Line. This has been done quite extensively in Germany. In fact looking at the OFGEM site it appears there is already a project to do this under consideration to provide extra capacity and redundancy by installing a circuit from Bangor to Llanfair PG.

The owner of the infrastructure is National Grid they have a certain expertise in these matters.

[KeithW]

The pylons are staying and a new line is going in to connect Wylfa Newydd (New Wylfa) to the grid at Pentir.

That project is currently more potential than real with the original backers having pulled out. Horizon Nuclear are still at the proposal stage and cannot proceed further until the various agencies have pronounced on the suitability of the Advanced Boiling Water Reactor design which has suffered poor operational availability in Japan. Needless to say Horizon have not even started work on raising the money required to build it nor has a strike price been agreed for its power. Don't hold your breath for this one folks.

Keith

[wrinkly]

Press release

http://gov.wales/newsroom/transport/201 ... i/?lang=en

“Obvious benefits” to Third Menai crossing - Ken Skates

Economy and Infrastructure Secretary, Ken Skates will meet interested parties today to discuss plans to improve access to and from Anglesey.

Speaking ahead of the meeting, he outlined the work which has taken place to date and explained why the Welsh Government’s preferred solution was a third Menai crossing.

The Economy and Infrastructure Secretary said:

“I have long been clear in my commitment to a third Menai crossing, and the obvious benefits it would bring to local communities and the economy. The current system is often at or over capacity and with major projects such as Wyfla Newydd in the pipeline it’s imperative that we act quickly to look at how we can improve accessibility.

“We’ve looked in detail at all possible solutions to the existing Britannia Bridge, from providing three narrow lanes with tidal flow on the existing bridge to moving the eastbound merge to smooth traffic flow. These options have been ruled out following significant safety issues identified in risk assessments and concerns raised by the emergency services.

“We are now developing a preferred option for a new bridge in consultation with interested parties to see what’s possible. As part of this process, we continue to explore with the National Grid opportunities for a combined road and cable crossing – something which could provide added benefits to the scheme for all concerned.”

Turning his attention to other transport projects currently taking place in North Wales, the Economy Secretary said:

“The A55 is clearly another priority for Welsh Government, with several multi million pound improvement schemes to improve resilience, reduce traffic delays, tackle pinch points and upgrade junctions already in progress, and the consultation into the £200m Deeside Corridor project almost under way.

“Alongside rail modernisation, our first Wales and Borders franchise and our plans for a North Wales Metro, these are exciting times for transport in North Wales. I’m keen to progress these projects at the earliest opportunity so that communities across North Wales can feel the benefits as soon as possible.”

[multiraider2]

I had a week in North Wales in 2015 and was based in Ynys Môn. Trips back to the house in the late afternoon/early evening from the mainland seemed to always bring out the "queues ahead" signs on the A55. I didn't use the Britannia Bridge once. The Menai Bridge seemed always to be at least moving and the owner of the house we were renting; Mrs Price from Benllech, suggested she always went that way.

Needed for this important route.

[wrinkly]

I've just discovered that a load of stuff about options for a 3rd Menai crossing was put on the WG website in July.

http://gov.wales/topics/transport/roads ... g/?lang=en

I haven't seen any press releases or anything. There are references to an exhibition but I haven't noticed any mention of date or place. Maybe announcements are imminent.

[Pendlemac]

Consultation started today.

Scheme page ( with PDF consultation document ) at https://consultations.gov.wales/consult ... i-crossing

Two exhibitions, first on 3rd Tuesday / Wednesday in Jan, second on 4th Tuesday / Wednesday in Jan, full details in PDF.

[jackal]

Thanks for that. It seems the balanced cantilever options give best BCR, regardless of which route alignment is preferred. Purple (four lane) or Orange (four lane) would provide a completely new NSL D2H alignment for the A55, so seem clearly seem to be best in strategic terms - although westbound access to J8A is a bit weird, requiring a U-turn at J9 if I'm reading the plans right.

However, balanced cantilever would have more environmental impact in the straight, so if that's decisive it looks like Pink, Orange (two lane) or Purple (two lane) with single span extradosed would be the best value options. This would, however, mean slightly compromised provision for strategic traffic, as westbound would be on the old bridge, without HS and at 50mph.

I'm a bit surprised that all the proposals include HS on the new bridge given the adjacent sections of A55 don't have HS. You'd think future proofing for a third lane would be unnecessary at this location, and not too effective anyway for the two lane options (which lack the HS in one direction anyway). That said, costs are still surprisingly low (£97m-£168m), as often seems to be true of major Welsh schemes.

[Osthagen]

Is the congestion in the area significant enough for the construction of a third bridge? I’m not completely convinced.

[c2R]

Is the congestion in the area significant enough for the construction of a third bridge? I’m not completely convinced.

Yes, Holyhead is a very busy port with a large amount of freight going through. If the bridge is closed because of an accident and traffic tries to divert across the old bridge, it causes enormous congestion in the area and people to miss their ferries. The current bridge is also on a poor alignment for the bypass, with speed limit in place, and dodgey access sliproad heading eastbound on a tight bend where traffic already goes down to one lane.... Therefore it needs a third bridge, and all the better if that bridge can be on the purple alignment for both carriageways it future proofs the corridor and improves safety.

[jackal]

It's definitely needed - over 30k AADT on an S2.

[wrinkly]

Press release:

http://gov.wales/newsroom/transport/201 ... d/?lang=en

Third Menai Crossing electricity connection to be examined
A feasibility study will be carried out to investigate whether a vital electricity connection could be carried on the proposed third Menai crossing, Economy and Transport Secretary Ken Skates has announced.