Oxford to Cambridge expressway

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c2R
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by c2R »

6637 wrote: Way I see it, the eastern route around Oxford makes more sense as:

1) The existing A34 past Oxford doesn't have enough capacity, and the section through Botley is restricted to only 50 mph. There's no obvious way to bypass that section.
I'd propose online widening with property demolition in order to bring the road up to modern expressway standard, using collector/distributor road for Oxford traffic
2) For through traffic, a route that goes west of Oxford would be significantly longer than one east of Oxford.
It very much depends what you mean by through traffic - if you mean Birmingham to Southampton, then you're wrong. Also, they're leaning towards Option B, which would mean that the eastern route around Oxford wouldn't have the same benefits as if they were building Option C
3) If you use the route east of Oxford, the new road will probably have a fully-freeflow junction with the M40. I expect the new road would multiplex with the M40 for a few miles just north of J8.
Option B appears to cross near Bicester, and S3 shows some multiplexing with the M40 S2 and S3 then join the existing line north of Abingdon, whereas to be more than a glorified Oxford distributor and to maximise the attractiveness of the route they should probably join at Didcot.

S1 seems the best route to me additionally as it avoids the creation of another transport corridor and could improve considerably on what's there already.
4) The eastern route better serves eastern Oxford, as well as Aylesbury and the A41.
The Western route better serves western Oxford as well as Bicester and the M40....

Also, improvements to the western side could incorporate a better connection to the Whitney bypass and improved M40 junction to try and divert A40 through traffic away from Oxford itself.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by 6637 »

c2R wrote: It very much depends what you mean by through traffic - if you mean Birmingham to Southampton, then you're wrong. Also, they're leaning towards Option B, which would mean that the eastern route around Oxford wouldn't have the same benefits as if they were building Option C
Upon reconsideration, you're right. I had just assumed that they were thinking of routing the eastern route east of Abingdon, whereas looking at the map more closely it turns out they're actually planning on putting it west of Abingdon!

This is the sort of thing I was imagining. Would be good for both through traffic from Birmingham-Southampton and for through traffic from Milton Keynes-Southampton.

Unfortunately I can only assume they've rejected, or not considered, this option for some reason.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by jackal »

6637 wrote:3) If you use the route east of Oxford, the new road will probably have a fully-freeflow junction with the M40. I expect the new road would multiplex with the M40 for a few miles just north of J8.
You could easily have a full freeflow junction for the western route too. Here's a sketch I made for a remodelled M40 J9:
M40 J9 - Copy.png
On this interpretation, route B+sub option 1 would utilize the existing A34 and a short section of the A41.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by andrewwoods »

c2R wrote:
6637 wrote: Way I see it, the eastern route around Oxford makes more sense as:

1) The existing A34 past Oxford doesn't have enough capacity, and the section through Botley is restricted to only 50 mph. There's no obvious way to bypass that section.
I'd propose online widening with property demolition in order to bring the road up to modern expressway standard, using collector/distributor road for Oxford traffic

Hundreds of houses. Absolutely not going to happen, not in Oxford.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by jackal »

A decision on the corridor is due this summer, with three options: A (via Aylesbury), B (via Winslow) or C (via Buckingham).

Image

Image

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As this point corridor A appears to be the overwhelming favourite, with less severe environmental problems, more public support (see poll below), and reportedly the favour of Oxfordshire CC and national govt.

https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/161912 ... 3_options/
Last edited by jackal on Mon Jun 04, 2018 13:30, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Bryn666 »

This is exactly the kind of corridor that should be a blue line and protected from shed development, not a halfway house expressway.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by jackal »

Not only is it not protected from development, Sajid Javid promised (prior to his recent elevation) 2-5 new towns along the corridor.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Bryn666 »

jackal wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 13:34 Not only is it not protected from development, Sajid Javid promised (prior to his recent elevation) 2-5 new towns along the corridor.
That's the induced demand warriors out in full force then.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by roadtester »

It would be great if the dualled bit of A41 could be extended to meet it, especially if it takes the route closest to Aylesbury.

By which I mean it would be neat and tidy - I'm not remotely qualified to say whether that's the right thing to do in technical/economic terms.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by jedikiah »

jackal wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 13:26 As this point corridor A appears to be the overwhelming favourite, with less severe environmental problems, more public support (see poll below), and reportedly the favour of Oxfordshire CC and national govt.
It is the least favourite with South Oxfordshire DC … because it is the only one which goes through it.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by owen b »

jackal wrote: Mon Jun 04, 2018 13:34 Not only is it not protected from development, Sajid Javid promised (prior to his recent elevation) 2-5 new towns along the corridor.
A million new homes between Oxford and Cambridge according to that Oxford Mail article :( . What's that, 2-3 million people I suppose? That much new development requires more than a new expressway and a new rail line I suspect.

Of the options, Corridor A looks the best to me. As roadtester says, the A41 could be dualled from the Aston Clinton bypass and linked to Corridor A at Aylesbury, and I'll add that the Leighton Buzzard southern bypass (A505/A4146) could also be dualled and linked in for a spur to Luton/Dunstable/M1 south. As I think I said upthread, I think finding a route from Leighton Buzzard to M1 J13 will be one of the tricky bits. I suggest it should thread around Stoke Hammond, to the west of Bow Brickhill, and then north of Woburn Sands, although I don't see how you can entirely avoid problems around Woburn Sands in particular.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Nader »

Personally I'd vote for B or C. A is pretty useless for traffic from MK to Oxford which would make up a fair proportion of the road at this point, by the time you detour down towards Leighton Buzzard you may as well just take the A41 via Buckingham
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by jackal »

There's a scheme page for this - new, I think: https://highwaysengland.co.uk/projects/ ... xpressway/

The one bit of news for me (though apparently announced in the autumn) was that it will start construction by the end of RIS2 (which is 2020-25).
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by gromitA303 »

6637 wrote: Wed Nov 29, 2017 04:20
c2R wrote: It very much depends what you mean by through traffic - if you mean Birmingham to Southampton, then you're wrong. Also, they're leaning towards Option B, which would mean that the eastern route around Oxford wouldn't have the same benefits as if they were building Option C
Upon reconsideration, you're right. I had just assumed that they were thinking of routing the eastern route east of Abingdon, whereas looking at the map more closely it turns out they're actually planning on putting it west of Abingdon!

This is the sort of thing I was imagining. Would be good for both through traffic from Birmingham-Southampton and for through traffic from Milton Keynes-Southampton.

Unfortunately I can only assume they've rejected, or not considered, this option for some reason.

oxf.png
In the maps Jackal posted if you took bits of the grey bit at the south and the bottom extremity of the pink/orange bit you'd more or less get this. Good as you say for long distance traffic but not so good in picking up anything between the south east of Oxford and MK.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by KeithW »

Nader wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 08:50 Personally I'd vote for B or C. A is pretty useless for traffic from MK to Oxford which would make up a fair proportion of the road at this point, by the time you detour down towards Leighton Buzzard you may as well just take the A41 via Buckingham
Route A doesn't look bad to me as someone who regularly drove through MK on my way from Cambridge to Harwell. MK is roundabout hell. Between the M1 and Snelsham West there were 15 last time I counted them. The A421 via Buckingham is not exactly a great route though better than it was 20 years ago. Then you have the nasty crawl down the A34.

If they pick Route A you could you drive south from MK pick up the Expressway leave at a junction near Thame and pick up the A40. Via the A421 its around 40 miles, take a route along where the Expressway would be and it would be no more than 5 miles longer and at 70 mph a LOT faster.

In any case as I have said before this is less about linking Cambridge City Centre to Oxford City Centre than it is about linking the greater Cambridge Area, East Anglia and the East Midlands to the Oxford Area and South West avoiding the M25. Right now if you want to get from the A14, A1 or M1 to Reading, Bristol and South Wales your high quality D2 choices are very limited. Google maps will either send you down to the M25 and along the M4 or route you via the M6 towards Birmingham, around the M42 and south down the M5

Route A would cut the corner and take through traffic out of MK leaving the roundabouts to the masochistic :)
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by gromitA303 »

Well it's nearly autumn so Failing Grayling's promise of making a corridor announcement in the summer is looking rather hopeful. Perhaps no surprise, that.

Meanwhile we have this contribution from the Guardian. Not my normal reading material I hasten to add, nor of many here I suspect...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... expressway

Mostly a load of rather contradictory twaddle IMHO. One bit is salient though:
"As the infrastructure commission’s report makes clear, there is really only one option for the route the new road can take."

Page 9 of the NIC report https://www.nic.org.uk/wp-content/uploa ... sperty.pdf states

"developing the Oxford-Cambridge Expressway, along the same broad corridor as East West Rail – creating a multi-modal transport spine that can support the development of large scale new communities"

Make of that what you will in relation to the corridor maps few posts above...
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by dcrc2 »

gromitA303 wrote: Wed Aug 22, 2018 23:31 Meanwhile we have this contribution from the Guardian. Not my normal reading material I hasten to add, nor of many here I suspect...
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... expressway
I really fear that this scheme is the one which could turn public opinion against road improvements in general, in the way that Twyford Down and Newbury did in the 90s. The Oxford-Cambridge expressway is guaranteed to generate massive opposition, being a new-build road through countryside in a very affluent part of the country. Worse, the purpose of the road isn't even to alleviate existing traffic problems in the area: rather it is designed to support massive new development (1 million homes according to the article), which the road's opponents are unlikely to want either.

I think the article is absolutely correct that, while may people may focus on the expressway itself, the real issue here is the level of development proposed for the area. If that development is to happen to its full extent, the road is unavoidable. If you're a resident of Oxfordshire who is hoping to keep unspoilt countryside around you, then the expressway is the least of your problems. But as the article says, there is not enough public debate taking place about whether and where new homes should be built, so it's the road which will end up taking the blame.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by jedikiah »

There is plenty of discussion about housing developments at the Oxfordshire end - anyone who owns a parcel of land have been coming up with proposals over the last 18 months. What has been affected is local and area planning as without knowledge of the intended course of this road no one can know how these might fit. The Guardian article is wrong, at least at the Oxford end of things, to indicate that it would just plug into the existing road network. There are a number of schemes that have not progressed from concept for local traffic distribution in the Didcot area waiting for this decision (although they would not have actually got anyway near construction by now for other reasons such as funding).

What the article also doesn't touch on is the progressive downgrading of the spec of the E-W railway between Bicester and Bedford, such as not being electrified, the local platforms now down to only be suitable for 4 carriage trains, etc.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by SteveA30 »

I welcome both the new road and reopened railway but, this will eventually result in a huge built up area from Oxford to Cambridge. The road should be D3 and GS'd for every junction and the line needs long platforms. Some of the open or disused stations must already have longer platforms so, shortening them to save peanuts is stupidly short sighted. Still, that's the norm in the UK, as cheap as possible, nothing else matters.
The Waverley route only had extra double track and 2 longer platform roads at Tweedbank, after lobbying from pro rail groups. Perhaps lobbying here will hopefully see common sense applied. Then again, this is England, the most miserly and lacking in vision of the 3 mainland countries. Money and how to avoid spending it wherever possible, is the mantra here.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by jackal »

So the summer has been and gone without the promised announcement on corridor selection.

This stakeholder presentation from May was recently uploaded:

http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... tation.pdf
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