Oxford to Cambridge expressway

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
User avatar
c2R
SABRE Wiki admin
Posts: 11155
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2002 11:01

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by c2R »

It's being progressed as a separate scheme so I don't believe that this announcement has any impact.
Is there a road improvement project going on near you? Help us to document it on the SABRE Wiki - help is available in the Digest forum.
Have you browsed SABRE Maps recently? Get involved! - see our guide to scanning and stitching maps
Micro The Maniac
Member
Posts: 1167
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 13:14
Location: Gone

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Micro The Maniac »

marconaf wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 09:43 It is telling that those against road construction on green grounds are also against HS2, what they are actually against is anything but pulling on whatever argument they can think of.
I've just been watching Impossible Engineering on Yesterday, about the building of the Millau Viaduct.

I was sat there pondering the absolute outrage had the UK government proposed such a magnificent piece of engineering.
User avatar
roadtester
Member
Posts: 31459
Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2007 18:05
Location: Cambridgeshire

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by roadtester »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 08:49
marconaf wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 09:43 It is telling that those against road construction on green grounds are also against HS2, what they are actually against is anything but pulling on whatever argument they can think of.
I've just been watching Impossible Engineering on Yesterday, about the building of the Millau Viaduct.

I was sat there pondering the absolute outrage had the UK government proposed such a magnificent piece of engineering.
To be fair, our estuary crossings are pretty impressive - Severn x2, Humber, Thames, Forth x 2, but we seem to go all timid about engineering structures once we go inland.
Electrophorus Electricus

Check out #davidsdailycar on Mastodon
mikehindsonevans
Member
Posts: 1359
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:44
Location: Cheshire, but working week time in Cambridge

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by mikehindsonevans »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 08:49
marconaf wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 09:43 It is telling that those against road construction on green grounds are also against HS2, what they are actually against is anything but pulling on whatever argument they can think of.
I've just been watching Impossible Engineering on Yesterday, about the building of the Millau Viaduct.

I was sat there pondering the absolute outrage had the UK government proposed such a magnificent piece of engineering.
British architect of the Millau Viaduct, Norman Foster
Mike Hindson-Evans.
Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by KeithW »

roadtester wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 08:55 To be fair, our estuary crossings are pretty impressive - Severn x2, Humber, Thames, Forth x 2, but we seem to go all timid about engineering structures once we go inland.
It was not always so. That it is now is in no small measure down to the wave of protest that followed the decision to build a monstrous cutting for the M3 across Twyford Down. That time it was not just the Nimbys and usual anti roads protestors but a real mix of people of all classes and groups. Its hardly a coincidence that in the aftermath many other planned road schemes, including the upgrade of the A1 between Baldock and Alconbury, were cancelled. A properly designed bridge is a thing of beauty what was done at Twyford Down is not. This really was the point at which governments started to shy away from building new motorways. The reason for all of this was that it was estimated that the Dept of Transport could save £75 million by digging a cutting rather than a tunnel. The very fact that the proposed new east west road was called an Expressway rather than a Motorway shows how toxic a brand Motorway had become. Worse it had taught road protestors how to be effective.

As for structures inland I would not call the A1(M) upgrade and junction with the M62 at Ferrybridge timid or Dishforth to Barton come to that.

It was always odds on that the new government would back away from this scheme, its focus is on keeping its new voters in the North happy and nobody in the Tees Valley is likely to be upset if Darlington gets a new bypass or the A66 is dualled between Penrith and Teesport. As for the Humber Bridge that decision was as political as it gets, it was the deciding factor in winning a critical byelection.
Micro The Maniac
Member
Posts: 1167
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 13:14
Location: Gone

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Micro The Maniac »

KeithW wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:51 That it is now is in no small measure down to the wave of protest that followed the decision to build a monstrous cutting for the M3 across Twyford Down.
I think we should add the equally monstrous M40 Aston Rowant cutting (J5-J6) to that, although that was 20 years earlier
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35714
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Bryn666 »

Yet the fact almost an entire moor was removed on the M62 is always ignored, and indeed everyone says it is a work of engineering art with the magnificent B6114 bridge going across where the moor once was.

Are southerners just being soft again :twisted:
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
KeithW
Member
Posts: 19178
Joined: Thu Dec 04, 2014 13:25
Location: Marton-In-Cleveland North Yorks

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by KeithW »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:45 Yet the fact almost an entire moor was removed on the M62 is always ignored, and indeed everyone says it is a work of engineering art with the magnificent B6114 bridge going across where the moor once was.

Are southerners just being soft again :twisted:
Its more that we have moved on, what was acceptable in 1971 is not today which is why the A57(M)/M67 has not been extended to Sheffield
Micro The Maniac
Member
Posts: 1167
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2015 13:14
Location: Gone

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Micro The Maniac »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:45 Yet the fact almost an entire moor was removed on the M62 is always ignored, and indeed everyone says it is a work of engineering art with the magnificent B6114 bridge going across where the moor once was.

Are southerners just being soft again :twisted:
Just imagine trying to get the Ribblehead Viaduct through planning today......
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35714
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Bryn666 »

Micro The Maniac wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 16:59
Bryn666 wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:45 Yet the fact almost an entire moor was removed on the M62 is always ignored, and indeed everyone says it is a work of engineering art with the magnificent B6114 bridge going across where the moor once was.

Are southerners just being soft again :twisted:
Just imagine trying to get the Ribblehead Viaduct through planning today......
"why would anyone want to travel between Settle and Carlisle on a train, we have a perfectly serviceable route via Archangel, blah blah blah"
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
User avatar
Richard_Fairhurst
Member
Posts: 441
Joined: Wed May 07, 2003 13:16

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Richard_Fairhurst »

thatapanydude wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 19:54I mean I am not holding out for the best - only have to look at Bedford where DfT are downgrading the MML from inter-city 125mph to near 20 year old Class 360s at 100mph with 3+2 seating.
The speed limit on the MML is only 110mph anyway, and as Stevie D says the 360s are being uprated to 110mph. If the 360 refurb is good (say, to Chiltern standards) it might actually end up being a minor improvement over the previous service.
Help map the world: openstreetmap.org
User avatar
vlad
Member
Posts: 2585
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 16:20
Location: Near the northern end of the A34

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by vlad »

Bryn666 wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 18:03
Micro The Maniac wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 16:59
Bryn666 wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:45 Yet the fact almost an entire moor was removed on the M62 is always ignored, and indeed everyone says it is a work of engineering art with the magnificent B6114 bridge going across where the moor once was.

Are southerners just being soft again :twisted:
Just imagine trying to get the Ribblehead Viaduct through planning today......
"why would anyone want to travel between Settle and Carlisle on a train, we have a perfectly serviceable route via Archangel, blah blah blah"
Technically that's true. The Midland Railway only applied for an Act of Parliament to build the Settle-Carlisle Line because they wanted the LNWR to allow them to share the direct route from Lancaster to Carlisle.

Whereas the bluff worked, it backfired on the MR, who were forced by the Government to build the line: "We've passed this Act for you - we now expect you to do what you applied to do." :twisted:
"If you expect nothing from somebody you are never disappointed." - Sylvia Plath
M19
Member
Posts: 2248
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2001 05:00
Location: Rothwell, Northants

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by M19 »

KeithW wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 13:54
Bryn666 wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 11:45 Yet the fact almost an entire moor was removed on the M62 is always ignored, and indeed everyone says it is a work of engineering art with the magnificent B6114 bridge going across where the moor once was.

Are southerners just being soft again :twisted:
Its more that we have moved on, what was acceptable in 1971 is not today which is why the A57(M)/M67 has not been extended to Sheffield
The A74 motorway upgrade involved carving into the other side of the valley heading north towards Beattock opposite the existing split carriageways. It looked like a proper disaster zone during construction but it’s now part of the scenery. No Swampies to be seen anywhere - too far away from anywhere I guess.
M19
User avatar
thatapanydude
Member
Posts: 522
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2015 21:35
Location: Bedfordshire

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by thatapanydude »

Richard_Fairhurst wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 18:46
thatapanydude wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 19:54I mean I am not holding out for the best - only have to look at Bedford where DfT are downgrading the MML from inter-city 125mph to near 20 year old Class 360s at 100mph with 3+2 seating.
The speed limit on the MML is only 110mph anyway, and as Stevie D says the 360s are being uprated to 110mph. If the 360 refurb is good (say, to Chiltern standards) it might actually end up being a minor improvement over the previous service.
Hopefully it will be but I am sure north of Bedford its 125mph (I might be wrong on that) and south its being upgraded.

The big question is if on the refurbishment. Not to go into full rant mode but my major issue are that customers from Wellingboro' and to a lesser extent Corby (they can change onto the fasts at Kettering) are paying intercity prices (vs comparable services and distance from St Neots/Huntington/Northampton) for a service which will be initially temporarily but still 3+2, with no catering (there are a sizable amount of first class customers from Wellingboro' to London - from the few times I have been on-board from Nottingham) as well as no gangway's which will mean a far from even loading at St Pancras.

Yes there will be more seats and an increase in the service to 1/2 hourly but this could have been done with Class 800s along with a trolley service too to reflect the fact customers north of Bedford are paying intercity prices for a commuter service. I suspect those living in NE Beds and East Northants will now probably drive to Huntington/St Neots going forward into London or drive if going to the East Midlands - which is a pity but a reflection on the MML moving to cater to (and possibly rightly) for truly long distance customers from Nottingham/Derby/Sheffield into London.
A1/A1(M) >>> M1
Scratchwood
Member
Posts: 514
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 21:44
Location: London

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Scratchwood »

A lot of railway comments on this thread, I think I'll pop over to Rail UK now to open a new thread there about signalised roundabouts :wink:
mikehindsonevans
Member
Posts: 1359
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:44
Location: Cheshire, but working week time in Cambridge

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by mikehindsonevans »

Scratchwood wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 22:16 A lot of railway comments on this thread, I think I'll pop over to Rail UK now to open a new thread there about signalised roundabouts :wink:
Well, if the expressway has been dropped
in the belief that the rebuilt Varsity Line can carry the traffic, bypass MK and hook up the intervening towns, then why not discuss the Rail alternative on SABRE?

I am proud that this website embraces what are, to some, "minority interests". :P
Mike Hindson-Evans.
Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
User avatar
wrinkly
Member
Posts: 8984
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:17
Location: Leeds

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by wrinkly »

Scratchwood wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 22:16 A lot of railway comments on this thread
There were a lot more on the Black Cat to Cambourne thread, but they've now been moved to a different subforum.
User avatar
Vierwielen
Member
Posts: 5661
Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 21:21
Location: Hampshire

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Vierwielen »

KeithW wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:51
roadtester wrote: Sun Mar 21, 2021 08:55 To be fair, our estuary crossings are pretty impressive - Severn x2, Humber, Thames, Forth x 2, but we seem to go all timid about engineering structures once we go inland.
It was not always so. That it is now is in no small measure down to the wave of protest that followed the decision to build a monstrous cutting for the M3 across Twyford Down. That time it was not just the Nimbys and usual anti roads protestors but a real mix of people of all classes and groups. Its hardly a coincidence that in the aftermath many other planned road schemes, including the upgrade of the A1 between Baldock and Alconbury, were cancelled. A properly designed bridge is a thing of beauty what was done at Twyford Down is not. This really was the point at which governments started to shy away from building new motorways. The reason for all of this was that it was estimated that the Dept of Transport could save £75 million by digging a cutting rather than a tunnel. The very fact that the proposed new east west road was called an Expressway rather than a Motorway shows how toxic a brand Motorway had become. Worse it had taught road protestors how to be effective.
One of the other knock-ons was the building of the Hindhead Tunnel, rather than a big cutting. Admittedly the National Trust probably has more clout in Government than does Swampy, which is why the tunnel was built.
User avatar
skiddaw05
Member
Posts: 2034
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 21:33
Location: Norwich

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by skiddaw05 »

wrinkly wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 23:51
Scratchwood wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 22:16 A lot of railway comments on this thread
There were a lot more on the Black Cat to Cambourne thread, but they've now been moved to a different subforum.
Someone must have switched the points...
Phil
Member
Posts: 2269
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2002 18:03
Location: Burgess Hill,W Sussex, UK

Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Phil »

Vierwielen wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 18:04
One of the other knock-ons was the building of the Hindhead Tunnel, rather than a big cutting. Admittedly the National Trust probably has more clout in Government than does Swampy, which is why the tunnel was built.
It does - thats why the A27 features a tunnel under Southwick Hill as the National Trust could have effectively sunk the entire Brighton & Hove by-pass scheme.

As others had noted attitudes to road building might well have been different had the National trust owned Twyford Down...
Post Reply