Oxford to Cambridge expressway

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jackal
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Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by jackal »

I thought this deserves it's own thread, rather than getting discussed in assorted threads about other roads.

As others have mentioned, the interim report is out. However, I found this presentation to the stakeholder reference group to be more forthcoming. Starting at p. 46 (PDF) it describes three shortlisted options:

Option A: Southern - M1 J13-Leighton Buzzard-Aylesbury-Thame-M40 J8-Abingdon
Option B: Central - M1 J13-South East of Bicester (goes direct, not via Buckingham or Bicester)
Option C: Northern - M1 J13-Buckingham-Bicester-South East of Bicester

There are also some interesting 'Oxford sub options':

S1 - connects Options B and C with what looks like a widened A34 through Botley
S2 and S3 - connect Option B or C via a bypass to the South and East of Oxford. S2 looks entirely offline while S3 flirts with the M40 (can't say if it uses the M40 itself or is just parallel to it).
Last edited by jackal on Fri Aug 19, 2016 13:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by giblets46 »

Option A would be useful to sort out the A34, is there an option that connects A (South of Oxford to Abingdon with a short trip up the M40 to Bicester and across?

Other thought is they are currently spending millions in East-west rail, how keen on undermining this are they?


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jackal
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by jackal »

giblets46 wrote:Option A would be useful to sort out the A34, is there an option that connects A (South of Oxford to Abingdon with a short trip up the M40 to Bicester and across?
That's pretty much what Oxford sub-option 3 does.
Other thought is they are currently spending millions in East-west rail, how keen on undermining this are they?
The presentation certainly presents the two schemes as complimentary. It also shows that a tiny proportion of commuting in the study area is by rail, and given the lack of a dense local rail network connecting to EWR it's unlikely it would remove the need for the expressway.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by jedikiah »

jackal wrote: S1 - connects Options B and C with what looks like a widened A34 through Botley
If the map is correct in its representation this has to be a new more westerly alignment round Oxford since if it were on the existing A34 through Botley it would be coloured in orange (ie current route improvement on and off line). Mind you the map draws the EWR well away from going through Didcot and clipping through Abingdon.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by firefly »

Why is it so important to have a high capacity link between Oxford and Cambridge and not between Peterborough and Norwich? Are some towns more equal than others in Britain?
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Owain »

firefly wrote:Why is it so important to have a high capacity link between Oxford and Cambridge and not between Peterborough and Norwich? Are some towns more equal than others in Britain?
I've never understood it, either.

If it's supposed to be a means of connecting the UK's two leading universities, it overlooks the fact that most academics seem to prefer using trains ( :confused: ), and most universities are extremely reluctant to compensate employees for travel expenses unless they use public transport ( :read: ). More than once, I've just got into a car and driven to the destination at my own expense, rather than faff around with that.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by jedikiah »

It isn't really so much to do with a fast route for people that travel the whole way between Oxford and Cambridge per se as the capacity of all the roads to cope with all the intermediate journeys now, let alone in the future.

The East-West train is considered part of the plan as well.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

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firefly wrote:Why is it so important to have a high capacity link between Oxford and Cambridge and not between Peterborough and Norwich? Are some towns more equal than others in Britain?
It's all part of some ridiculous amateur belief that there is some high but suppressed demand for travel between the two places which, as they are both pretty self-sufficient for their own academia, is actually just not there.

Past experience of Cambridge lets me tell you that all the interest is in the "next train to London", and many would never dream of setting foot in the "other place".

It reminds me of an equivalent amateur belief that, on urban rail or bus, "circular services" are an efficient option that there is a latent demand for, when they are (pretty obviously) not an efficient or practical option at all.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Owain »

WHBM wrote:
firefly wrote:Why is it so important to have a high capacity link between Oxford and Cambridge and not between Peterborough and Norwich? Are some towns more equal than others in Britain?
It's all part of some ridiculous amateur belief that there is some high demand for travel between the two places which, as they are both pretty self-sufficient for their own academia, is actually just not there.

Past experience of Cambridge lets me tell you that all the interest is in the "next train to London", and many would never dream of setting foot in the "other place".
There is that, too!

Personally, I wouldn't set foot in either of 'em.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

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Oxford and Cambridge are two massive assets with instant global recognition that we are going to have to milk for all they are worth in a post-Brexit world.

It's pretty daft that they are so close together and yet there are such poor links between them when modern thinking emphasises the importance of establishing clusters of mutually reinforcing expertise and support.

I don't think it's about a few tweedy old classics professors making very occasional outings in their Morris Minors to attend each others' seminars.

Cambridge and Oxford are also among our hottest centres of applied research and high-tech business - think about developments like AstraZeneca moving its UK R&D activities to a new site on the massive emerging biomedical campus near Addenbrookes in Cambridge.

And at the risk of stating the obvious, a lot of it is to do with the Milton Keynes being in between bit as well, not far from much of the UK's high tech engineering base. We have to get as much of the UK's expertise out of the labs and seminar rooms and into the world of business as we can.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by si404 »

firefly wrote:Why is it so important to have a high capacity link between Oxford and Cambridge and not between Peterborough and Norwich?
Let's see
  • Between Peterborough and Norwich, where's the Bedford-equivalent 80k town? Note I'm not even seeking an Milton Keynes-equivalent 230k town...
  • Is the A47 corridor going to have hundreds of thousands of people added to its population in the next 15 years?
  • Is it really not seen as important for Peterborough and Norwich to have a high capacity link along the A47?
WHBM wrote:It's all part of some ridiculous amateur belief that there is some high but suppressed demand for travel between the two places which, as they are both pretty self-sufficient for their own academia, is actually just not there.
Is it? It strikes me that, aside from the name of the concept (that appeals to the amateur mind so gives the scheme public support), the main thrust is enhanced trunk road links between the University cities and their hinterlands, some relief of other trunk roads (eg A34 past Oxford) and housing growth in Aylesbury Vale, Milton Keynes and parts of Bedfordshire. In fact it's far more about Bedford than Cambridge and Milton Keynes than Oxford.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by roadtester »

Also, don't forget that Milton Keynes isn't just concrete cows, an IKEA and a football club stolen from South London - it's also an important academic centre in its own right with the Open University and Cranfield.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

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roadtester wrote: Cranfield.
Which also has a campus in Oxfordshire.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

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Owain wrote:
roadtester wrote: Cranfield.
Which also has a campus in Oxfordshire.
Is that the (formerly?) defence-related site at Shrivenham?
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

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roadtester wrote:
Owain wrote:
roadtester wrote: Cranfield.
Which also has a campus in Oxfordshire.
Is that the (formerly?) defence-related site at Shrivenham?
Yep (which is where I thought Cranfield University was, until I discovered that there is a town called Cranfield!)
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

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jedikiah wrote:
jackal wrote: S1 - connects Options B and C with what looks like a widened A34 through Botley
If the map is correct in its representation this has to be a new more westerly alignment round Oxford since if it were on the existing A34 through Botley it would be coloured in orange (ie current route improvement on and off line). Mind you the map draws the EWR well away from going through Didcot and clipping through Abingdon.
That would mean that the online upgrade was not being considered at all, which would be very surprising since it was one of the two options put forward by the Oxfordshire growth board and discussed by HE in the press, etc. I've never heard of any serious proposal for a more westerly alignment.

I think it's more likely that the map is simply misleading in that respect. Perhaps because S1 is an alternative to S2 and S3 they think it's appropriate to mark it in similar colours even though it's just an upgrade of an existing route.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Rational Plan »

The North Western Arc between around London, often referred to as ROSEland (Rest of South East England) which is anchored by Oxford and Cambridge is has been one of the highest population growth spots in England for the last 30 years and is is expected to carry on so being for many more. It's only recently have the been seen more as London overspill and the towns there in seen as major centres of jobs growth, in particular in high tech businesses.

Improving connectivity between these centres whether by rail and road will help them continue to grow.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by jedikiah »

jackal wrote: That would mean that the online upgrade was not being considered at all, which would be very surprising since it was one of the two options put forward by the Oxfordshire growth board and discussed by HE in the press, etc. I've never heard of any serious proposal for a more westerly alignment.

I think it's more likely that the map is simply misleading in that respect. Perhaps because S1 is an alternative to S2 and S3 they think it's appropriate to mark it in similar colours even though it's just an upgrade of an existing route.
The route as shown has no built up area of Oxford shown to the west of it - everything to the east. If it were the existing route you would expect some grey on that side. However, it is of course only a schematic so too much shouldn't really be read into it I guess. Even the final report may not give anything more than an indicative routing.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by darkcape »

I thought some of the idea between an Oxford-Cambridge route was to provide a high-quality route that travels on a rough SW-NE alignment that bypasses London and the M25?

There's some good pieces of road in the home counties that can be connected to create some better alternative routes around the capital. The A421 M1-A1, parts of A428 and A120 offer fast routes east-west, but often die into an S2 or at a motorway junction. I've driven Banbury/Milton Keynes a few times and the A421 is rarely above 40mph in rush hour, despite being an NSL road. A route from Oxford to M1 J13 would create better options for people heading SW/NE, giving a faster alternative to the A45, and A43.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway

Post by Vierwielen »

firefly wrote:Why is it so important to have a high capacity link between Oxford and Cambridge and not between Peterborough and Norwich? Are some towns more equal than others in Britain?
Possibly it is the mising link between the "futher" ring road (incomplete) around London, further out than the M25. Once in place, it would be part of a partial ring linking Southampton and Ipswich which crosses all the major motorways out of London without multiplexing any of them. In time, it could become a defining boundary for many things much like the M25 is these days.
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