EWR between Oxford and Bedford uses disused or freight lines. Given this I don't think it would be practical to put EWR in the expressway central reservation. Certainly a less extreme co-location, as HE have suggested, may be appropriate.KeithW wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:58 I dont think that any plan that includes driving a D3 or D4 road with GSJ's through Milton Keynes would stand a chance of being approved especially one that includes closing existing junctions on what is a key spine road. The effect would be to cut MK in half. There is far to much infrastructure in the way including the A5 and railway to put it in a cutting or tunnel. It would have to be elevated, the result would be a monstrosity similar to the Westway.
There is in any case no reason why the Expressway needs to go near MK at all. What is needed is to find a route south of MK from Brogborough running between MK and Leighton Buzzard before running south and east of the existing A34 to enter Oxford from the North East and having a junction on the A40. If no such route can be built then there will be no Oxford to Cambridge Expressway. Ideally it would run close to the the East West Rail Link. I am thinking of something similar to CA-24 which runs between Oakland and Walnut Creek near Orinda where the BART rail system runs through the central reservation here.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@37.87774 ... authuser=0
You can get off the Freeway leave your car and carry on into Oakland , San Francisco or Walnut Creek by train.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/place/Wal ... authuser=0
For some reason we dont seem to do joined up transport planning here.
Oxford to Cambridge expressway
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
With the exception of the planned replacement train station at Winslow, I am not certain that EWR *currently* has much provision for "park and train".
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
There are already a lot of grade-separated crossings of the A421 through MK - I count 28 underpasses in all. They are, of course, the Redways.
A carefully thought-out programme involving a number of junction closures, a couple of GSJs, an S1 service road at key points (not necessarily along the whole length), and investment in the Redways would probably achieve everything that's needed. The notion that England's no 2 transport priority should be another expressway parallel to and just 25 miles south of the A14 is utterly hubristic - just fix the capacity issues on the existing road.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
If you think two expressways separated by 25 miles is too much you must love our supposedly more enlightened neighbours, e.g.:Richard_Fairhurst wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 14:18 The notion that England's no 2 transport priority should be another expressway parallel to and just 25 miles south of the A14 is utterly hubristic - just fix the capacity issues on the existing road.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.2052795,6.9295104,9z
Surely hubris would be severing two halves of a town with an expressway when there's a perfectly good route for a bypass.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Here is my sketch which I referred to earlier. It would be D4 between the Hospital and the A5 junction at Beanhill and from the A5130 and A4146 junctions. D3 east of Beanhill and D3 west to Magna Park and the A421 alignment at Brogborough - which should be widened to the A6 to D3. Other junctions I would close off with bridges to take traffic onto other local roads. MK is a grid system so I would disagree that such as scheme would cut it in half and rather like the A5 would be a complement to MK.
Red is D3, Burgundy is D4, Green Circle is a GSJ.
Red is D3, Burgundy is D4, Green Circle is a GSJ.
A1/A1(M) >>> M1
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
The Redways and the A5 corridor were of course part of the initial design of the new town, its rather more difficult to retrofit without either widespread demolition or building something like the Westway which would politically be unacceptable and financially more expensive than a new D2 road. The Redways are of course routes for non motorised traffic and are neither suitable for nor available for use as motor roads.Richard_Fairhurst wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 14:18There are already a lot of grade-separated crossings of the A421 through MK - I count 28 underpasses in all. They are, of course, the Redways.
A carefully thought-out programme involving a number of junction closures, a couple of GSJs, an S1 service road at key points (not necessarily along the whole length), and investment in the Redways would probably achieve everything that's needed. The notion that England's no 2 transport priority should be another expressway parallel to and just 25 miles south of the A14 is utterly hubristic - just fix the capacity issues on the existing road.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dgeezer/42923055912
I have driven the A421 through Milton Keynes many times. The roads is extensively used by local traffic, in fact it is the source of much of the traffic and you are NOT talking about a couple of GSJ's. discounting those at Magna Park there are 12 major at grade junctions on the route as well as the A5 flyover. There is no way you replace all of these by GSJ's. Even if you replaced half of them, closed the others and upgraded the road to D4 the amount of weaving would be horrific and you would be making the cardinal error of mixing through and local traffic. We all remember how that worked along the old A14.
Once you get to the A5 closure of the roundabouts would require a diversion of at least 2 miles from the existing route or you would need a very large new viaduct over the A5.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.01250 ... authuser=0
If you believe the scale of disruption this would involve is acceptable I have the deeds to a Bridge across the East River between Brooklyn and New York you may be interested in buying
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Indeed but if you are driving a new transport corridor from Oxford to Cambridge it would not be impossible to incorporate a twin track railway into the scheme as was done with CA24 and of course there is no route as yet for the rail link between Bedford and Cambridge. Its also worth recalling that the railway line into Bedford passes over the A421.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.10689 ... authuser=0
It may not be practical then and almost certainly is not now but in many ways an new railway north of the A421/A428/A14 Cambridge northern bypass would seem to have been an opportunity to both carry the EWR freight and passengers from Bedford, St Neots and Cambourne to Cambridge developments such as Orchard Park and the Science Park.
What happened instead is that the A14, EWR and Oxford Cambridge Expressway projects were all pursued in isolation.
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Work is being "paused": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51836827
Hope that this doesn't mean the A428/Black Cat work is being put on hold
Hope that this doesn't mean the A428/Black Cat work is being put on hold
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Its a separate scheme to the Oxford Cambridge Expressway, the remaining S2 section of the A428 is not fit for purpose and has a high number of serious accidents. I used to have to use this junction which was bl**dy dangerous, I saw the aftermath of several nasty accidents.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.56986 ... 6656?hl=en
A flat tee junction with a strategic road with high speed traffic is not a good idea.
In addition the levels of congestion at the Caxton Gibbet roundabout are high and growing especially given the amount of residential development happening in Godmanchester and St Neots adding even more traffic. Throw into the mix the new commercial developments planned around Caxton Gibbet and you are into 'something must be done' territory.
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Err.. nice view of a residential street in Middlesbrough.KeithW wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:13Its a separate scheme to the Oxford Cambridge Expressway, the remaining S2 section of the A428 is not fit for purpose and has a high number of serious accidents. I used to have to use this junction which was bl**dy dangerous, I saw the aftermath of several nasty accidents.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.56986 ... 6656?hl=en
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
camflyer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 21:43Err.. nice view of a residential street in Middlesbrough.KeithW wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:13Its a separate scheme to the Oxford Cambridge Expressway, the remaining S2 section of the A428 is not fit for purpose and has a high number of serious accidents. I used to have to use this junction which was bl**dy dangerous, I saw the aftermath of several nasty accidents.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.56986 ... 6656?hl=en
Oops try this
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.22195 ... 6656?hl=en
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
So what happened to the suggestion of using the corridor just to the south of MK? Which seemed to have been left empty.
I agree trying to use the A421 through MK would be insane - I drive it weekly (when I dont go xcountry through Woburn and N of Leighton Buzzard because of constant roundabout stop-start boringness!).
On another note, given Aylesbury (actually Bucks as it becomes a single authority) have plans for “link roads” that will encircle the town eventually (c.2030?+) albeit at grade and probably S2 - how might the A41 be extended up to the OxCam?
I still think EWR needs an interchange station where it crosses HS2 to tie everything in. We aren’t using the full potential of EWR at all, yet as a reopening it is reasonably easy (west/central sections, east not so much) - and integrating OxCam with HS2, EWR (Chiltern Aylesbury line?) would offer the entire Ox-Cam arc easy access to the rest of the country.
It’s also a bit smarter than just another road scheme which much as I like it, I question whether it stands on its own in an era where whilst I think private vehicles should and will remain dominant - this is something we can do both to replace journeys and open up new ones.
I agree trying to use the A421 through MK would be insane - I drive it weekly (when I dont go xcountry through Woburn and N of Leighton Buzzard because of constant roundabout stop-start boringness!).
On another note, given Aylesbury (actually Bucks as it becomes a single authority) have plans for “link roads” that will encircle the town eventually (c.2030?+) albeit at grade and probably S2 - how might the A41 be extended up to the OxCam?
I still think EWR needs an interchange station where it crosses HS2 to tie everything in. We aren’t using the full potential of EWR at all, yet as a reopening it is reasonably easy (west/central sections, east not so much) - and integrating OxCam with HS2, EWR (Chiltern Aylesbury line?) would offer the entire Ox-Cam arc easy access to the rest of the country.
It’s also a bit smarter than just another road scheme which much as I like it, I question whether it stands on its own in an era where whilst I think private vehicles should and will remain dominant - this is something we can do both to replace journeys and open up new ones.
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Meanwhile the go-ahead has been given for the new Cambridge South rail station as part of the new Cambridge-Oxford rail line.camflyer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 09:53 Work is being "paused": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51836827
Hope that this doesn't mean the A428/Black Cat work is being put on hold
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Local news article here:Dadge wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 00:20Meanwhile the go-ahead has been given for the new Cambridge South rail station as part of the new Cambridge-Oxford rail line.camflyer wrote: ↑Thu Mar 12, 2020 09:53 Work is being "paused": https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-51836827
Hope that this doesn't mean the A428/Black Cat work is being put on hold
https://www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk/ ... n-9102318/
With the bio-medical campus developing so quickly, this will make a huge difference.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
The problem is that EWR crosses HS2 near Calvert which is pretty much in the middle of nowhere. HS2 and EWR have been talking to each other to coordinate engineering works but there is no suggestion of any interchange station.marconaf wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 23:33 I still think EWR needs an interchange station where it crosses HS2 to tie everything in. We aren’t using the full potential of EWR at all, yet as a reopening it is reasonably easy (west/central sections, east not so much) - and integrating OxCam with HS2, EWR (Chiltern Aylesbury line?) would offer the entire Ox-Cam arc easy access to the rest of the country.
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
But if they go ahead with the development of the Oxford Cambridge arc. Several new towns and a new city between Bicester and MK. The new city would have to be close to the HS2 EWR crossing point.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
It is "in the middle of nowhere* at the moment. This allows time - and space- for an interchange to be designed and built, or for" passive provision" to be made.camflyer wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:11The problem is that EWR crosses HS2 near Calvert which is pretty much in the middle of nowhere. HS2 and EWR have been talking to each other to coordinate engineering works but there is no suggestion of any interchange station.marconaf wrote: ↑Fri Mar 13, 2020 23:33 I still think EWR needs an interchange station where it crosses HS2 to tie everything in. We aren’t using the full potential of EWR at all, yet as a reopening it is reasonably easy (west/central sections, east not so much) - and integrating OxCam with HS2, EWR (Chiltern Aylesbury line?) would offer the entire Ox-Cam arc easy access to the rest of the country.
I just hope that it is a better passive provision than that provided at Catthorpe when the M1 ploughed northwards Lutterworth all those decades back...
Mike Hindson-Evans.
Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
There wasn't any inkling that another road would ever connect there, to be fair.mikehindsonevans wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 21:35 I just hope that it is a better passive provision than that provided at Catthorpe when the M1 ploughed northwards Lutterworth all those decades back...
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Correct - when the M6 was built here the main English freight ports were still London and Liverpool. The idea that Felixstowe and Tilbury would take over was still some way off. Containerisation is the only reason the A13 and A14 exist as they do today.M5Lenzar wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 21:55There wasn't any inkling that another road would ever connect there, to be fair.mikehindsonevans wrote: ↑Sat Mar 14, 2020 21:35 I just hope that it is a better passive provision than that provided at Catthorpe when the M1 ploughed northwards Lutterworth all those decades back...
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck