Oxford to Cambridge expressway
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
It's being progressed as a separate scheme so I don't believe that this announcement has any impact.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
I've just been watching Impossible Engineering on Yesterday, about the building of the Millau Viaduct.
I was sat there pondering the absolute outrage had the UK government proposed such a magnificent piece of engineering.
- roadtester
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
To be fair, our estuary crossings are pretty impressive - Severn x2, Humber, Thames, Forth x 2, but we seem to go all timid about engineering structures once we go inland.Micro The Maniac wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 08:49I've just been watching Impossible Engineering on Yesterday, about the building of the Millau Viaduct.
I was sat there pondering the absolute outrage had the UK government proposed such a magnificent piece of engineering.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
British architect of the Millau Viaduct, Norman FosterMicro The Maniac wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 08:49I've just been watching Impossible Engineering on Yesterday, about the building of the Millau Viaduct.
I was sat there pondering the absolute outrage had the UK government proposed such a magnificent piece of engineering.
Mike Hindson-Evans.
Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Never argue with a conspiracy theorist.
They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
It was not always so. That it is now is in no small measure down to the wave of protest that followed the decision to build a monstrous cutting for the M3 across Twyford Down. That time it was not just the Nimbys and usual anti roads protestors but a real mix of people of all classes and groups. Its hardly a coincidence that in the aftermath many other planned road schemes, including the upgrade of the A1 between Baldock and Alconbury, were cancelled. A properly designed bridge is a thing of beauty what was done at Twyford Down is not. This really was the point at which governments started to shy away from building new motorways. The reason for all of this was that it was estimated that the Dept of Transport could save £75 million by digging a cutting rather than a tunnel. The very fact that the proposed new east west road was called an Expressway rather than a Motorway shows how toxic a brand Motorway had become. Worse it had taught road protestors how to be effective.roadtester wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 08:55 To be fair, our estuary crossings are pretty impressive - Severn x2, Humber, Thames, Forth x 2, but we seem to go all timid about engineering structures once we go inland.
As for structures inland I would not call the A1(M) upgrade and junction with the M62 at Ferrybridge timid or Dishforth to Barton come to that.
It was always odds on that the new government would back away from this scheme, its focus is on keeping its new voters in the North happy and nobody in the Tees Valley is likely to be upset if Darlington gets a new bypass or the A66 is dualled between Penrith and Teesport. As for the Humber Bridge that decision was as political as it gets, it was the deciding factor in winning a critical byelection.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
I think we should add the equally monstrous M40 Aston Rowant cutting (J5-J6) to that, although that was 20 years earlier
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Yet the fact almost an entire moor was removed on the M62 is always ignored, and indeed everyone says it is a work of engineering art with the magnificent B6114 bridge going across where the moor once was.
Are southerners just being soft again
Are southerners just being soft again
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Its more that we have moved on, what was acceptable in 1971 is not today which is why the A57(M)/M67 has not been extended to Sheffield
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Just imagine trying to get the Ribblehead Viaduct through planning today......
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
"why would anyone want to travel between Settle and Carlisle on a train, we have a perfectly serviceable route via Archangel, blah blah blah"Micro The Maniac wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 16:59Just imagine trying to get the Ribblehead Viaduct through planning today......
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
The speed limit on the MML is only 110mph anyway, and as Stevie D says the 360s are being uprated to 110mph. If the 360 refurb is good (say, to Chiltern standards) it might actually end up being a minor improvement over the previous service.thatapanydude wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 19:54I mean I am not holding out for the best - only have to look at Bedford where DfT are downgrading the MML from inter-city 125mph to near 20 year old Class 360s at 100mph with 3+2 seating.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Technically that's true. The Midland Railway only applied for an Act of Parliament to build the Settle-Carlisle Line because they wanted the LNWR to allow them to share the direct route from Lancaster to Carlisle.Bryn666 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 18:03"why would anyone want to travel between Settle and Carlisle on a train, we have a perfectly serviceable route via Archangel, blah blah blah"Micro The Maniac wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 16:59Just imagine trying to get the Ribblehead Viaduct through planning today......
Whereas the bluff worked, it backfired on the MR, who were forced by the Government to build the line: "We've passed this Act for you - we now expect you to do what you applied to do."
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
The A74 motorway upgrade involved carving into the other side of the valley heading north towards Beattock opposite the existing split carriageways. It looked like a proper disaster zone during construction but it’s now part of the scenery. No Swampies to be seen anywhere - too far away from anywhere I guess.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Hopefully it will be but I am sure north of Bedford its 125mph (I might be wrong on that) and south its being upgraded.Richard_Fairhurst wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 18:46The speed limit on the MML is only 110mph anyway, and as Stevie D says the 360s are being uprated to 110mph. If the 360 refurb is good (say, to Chiltern standards) it might actually end up being a minor improvement over the previous service.thatapanydude wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 19:54I mean I am not holding out for the best - only have to look at Bedford where DfT are downgrading the MML from inter-city 125mph to near 20 year old Class 360s at 100mph with 3+2 seating.
The big question is if on the refurbishment. Not to go into full rant mode but my major issue are that customers from Wellingboro' and to a lesser extent Corby (they can change onto the fasts at Kettering) are paying intercity prices (vs comparable services and distance from St Neots/Huntington/Northampton) for a service which will be initially temporarily but still 3+2, with no catering (there are a sizable amount of first class customers from Wellingboro' to London - from the few times I have been on-board from Nottingham) as well as no gangway's which will mean a far from even loading at St Pancras.
Yes there will be more seats and an increase in the service to 1/2 hourly but this could have been done with Class 800s along with a trolley service too to reflect the fact customers north of Bedford are paying intercity prices for a commuter service. I suspect those living in NE Beds and East Northants will now probably drive to Huntington/St Neots going forward into London or drive if going to the East Midlands - which is a pity but a reflection on the MML moving to cater to (and possibly rightly) for truly long distance customers from Nottingham/Derby/Sheffield into London.
A1/A1(M) >>> M1
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
A lot of railway comments on this thread, I think I'll pop over to Rail UK now to open a new thread there about signalised roundabouts
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Well, if the expressway has been droppedScratchwood wrote: ↑Tue Mar 23, 2021 22:16 A lot of railway comments on this thread, I think I'll pop over to Rail UK now to open a new thread there about signalised roundabouts
in the belief that the rebuilt Varsity Line can carry the traffic, bypass MK and hook up the intervening towns, then why not discuss the Rail alternative on SABRE?
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
There were a lot more on the Black Cat to Cambourne thread, but they've now been moved to a different subforum.
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Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
One of the other knock-ons was the building of the Hindhead Tunnel, rather than a big cutting. Admittedly the National Trust probably has more clout in Government than does Swampy, which is why the tunnel was built.KeithW wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 10:51It was not always so. That it is now is in no small measure down to the wave of protest that followed the decision to build a monstrous cutting for the M3 across Twyford Down. That time it was not just the Nimbys and usual anti roads protestors but a real mix of people of all classes and groups. Its hardly a coincidence that in the aftermath many other planned road schemes, including the upgrade of the A1 between Baldock and Alconbury, were cancelled. A properly designed bridge is a thing of beauty what was done at Twyford Down is not. This really was the point at which governments started to shy away from building new motorways. The reason for all of this was that it was estimated that the Dept of Transport could save £75 million by digging a cutting rather than a tunnel. The very fact that the proposed new east west road was called an Expressway rather than a Motorway shows how toxic a brand Motorway had become. Worse it had taught road protestors how to be effective.roadtester wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 08:55 To be fair, our estuary crossings are pretty impressive - Severn x2, Humber, Thames, Forth x 2, but we seem to go all timid about engineering structures once we go inland.
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
Someone must have switched the points...
Re: Oxford to Cambridge expressway
It does - thats why the A27 features a tunnel under Southwick Hill as the National Trust could have effectively sunk the entire Brighton & Hove by-pass scheme.Vierwielen wrote: ↑Wed Mar 24, 2021 18:04
One of the other knock-ons was the building of the Hindhead Tunnel, rather than a big cutting. Admittedly the National Trust probably has more clout in Government than does Swampy, which is why the tunnel was built.
As others had noted attitudes to road building might well have been different had the National trust owned Twyford Down...