"Perth Transport Futures"

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rileyrob
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by rileyrob »

Glen wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 20:36
rileyrob wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 08:41 St. Johnstone Interchange
Is that a "Bob name", like such classics as "Asda Roundabout"?
I've only ever heard it referred to as Crieff Road Junction.
it is possible, but I think I did find some corroboration for the name in the past, either on the Bear or P&K website.
The roundabout that used to serve the A9 southbound has been called Newhouse Roundabout, and I think that the junction as a whole was St Johnstone. One of the problems is that the roundabout between the A85 and A912 is also referred to as Crieff Road roundabout, so while the A9 junction may be commonly known as Crieff Road Junction, by the public, I think it also has an official name to avoid confusion.
Having said all of that, none of the transport futures site seems to give the junction any name at all (on a quick look anyway).
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I don't like thinking about how badly I am doing.

From the SABRE Wiki: St. Johnstone Interchange :


St. Johnstone Interchange is the connection between the A85 and A9 Perth Bypass to the west of the city. Both are busy routes, the A9 carrying almost all of the traffic heading north to the North Highlands, Inverness and Moray from the central belt, whilst the A85 connects Perth with the West Highlands, via Strathearn. It is therefore a Grade Separated Junction, with the dual carriageway A9 passing under the A85. The junction was originally built when the

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Nwallace
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Nwallace »

Slighgtly off topic, I note from the "Swallow Roundabout" entry that it replaced the "Invergowrie Roundabout" but everyone knows that the roundabout was and is called Bullionfield! eventhough it's little more than an A90 LILO masquerading as a car park...
paully
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by paully »

Update based on the following tweet (please ignore the erroneous reference to A98 which I assume should read "A9")

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1080812985520701441

Looks like all the roads are open, including the rest of the B9993 (so it is no longer orphaned from the rest of the network).
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Glen »

£40 million of funding has been allocated to the Cross Tay Link Road by the Scottish Government.

https://www.gov.scot/news/boost-for-tay-cities-region/
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Euan
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Euan »

At the moment one of the best ways of reaching the A93/A94 from Broxden Roundabout is to take the M90 over the Friarton Bridge and the A85 into Perth. I suspect that will change once the Cross Tay Link Road is complete. Are there any plans for the B9993 to have a junction on the A9 north of Inveralmond Roundabout or just on the Perth bypass as it has just now?
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Altnabreac »

Glen wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 12:29 £40 million of funding has been allocated to the Cross Tay Link Road by the Scottish Government.

https://www.gov.scot/news/boost-for-tay-cities-region/
Excellent news. Was looking at the designs and one interesting point I hadn't realised before is that there is a 2km long realignment of the A9 between the river Almond and Luncarty.

This has the happy side effect of eliminating all four central reservation gaps on the dualled A9 on this section.

That's 25% of the gaps Perth and Inverness sorted out so a good start on that front.
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Altnabreac »

Euan wrote: Mon Jan 07, 2019 14:56 At the moment one of the best ways of reaching the A93/A94 from Broxden Roundabout is to take the M90 over the Friarton Bridge and the A85 into Perth. I suspect that will change once the Cross Tay Link Road is complete. Are there any plans for the B9993 to have a junction on the A9 north of Inveralmond Roundabout or just on the Perth bypass as it has just now?
A link from the B9993 to the A9 / Cross Tay Link Road north of Inveralmond is Phase 3 of the Perth Transport Futures scheme. Phase 1 being the current scheme and Phase 2 being the Cross Tay Link Road.
Phase 1 A9/A85 Junction Improvement and Link Road to Bertha Park
Phase 2 Cross Tay Link Road (CTLR) – A9 to the A93 and A94
Phase 3 Bertha Park North Link to A9 (Linking Phases 1 and 2)
Phase 4 Associated City improvements such as traffic management measures and measures to further develop the cycling, walking and public transport networks in and around Perth to encourage travel by more sustainable modes.
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by B9127 »

Once this is built and assuming it is built before a Dundee Northern Bypass is even on the drawing board does anyone think this will be a route to avoid the Dundee Kingsway by using A94
Motorways travelled 2019 - M90 - M9 - M80 - M8 -M77 - M73 -A74(M) -M6-M42-M40 -A404(M) - M4 - M5 -M50 -M56 much better so far than last year
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novaecosse
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by novaecosse »

B9127 wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 18:43 Once this is built and assuming it is built before a Dundee Northern Bypass is even on the drawing board does anyone think this will be a route to avoid the Dundee Kingsway by using A94
Once the Swallow Roundabout is signalised, CTLR will probably shave 20 minutes off the journey :laugh:
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Euan
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Euan »

I doubt the A94 would ever become a popular road for traffic heading from Perth to the A90 north of Dundee even when the new crossing is open. Ever since the upgrade of the A85/A929 (current A90) the A94 is really more of a local road for Scone, Coupar Angus and Meigle.
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Burns
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Burns »

novaecosse wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 20:51
B9127 wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 18:43 Once this is built and assuming it is built before a Dundee Northern Bypass is even on the drawing board does anyone think this will be a route to avoid the Dundee Kingsway by using A94
Once the Swallow Roundabout is signalised, CTLR will probably shave 20 minutes off the journey :laugh:
When is the Swallow due to be demonised?
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Burns
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Burns »

Euan wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 23:07 I doubt the A94 would ever become a popular road for traffic heading from Perth to the A90 north of Dundee even when the new crossing is open. Ever since the upgrade of the A85/A929 (current A90) the A94 is really more of a local road for Scone, Coupar Angus and Meigle.
I've had to do a lot of driving between Perth (and the west of) and Fofar/Montrose and I honestly prefer the A94. The stop/start roundabouts and traffic lights get to you after a while.
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Euan
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Euan »

Burns wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 23:10
Euan wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 23:07 I doubt the A94 would ever become a popular road for traffic heading from Perth to the A90 north of Dundee even when the new crossing is open. Ever since the upgrade of the A85/A929 (current A90) the A94 is really more of a local road for Scone, Coupar Angus and Meigle.
I've had to do a lot of driving between Perth (and the west of) and Fofar/Montrose and I honestly prefer the A94. The stop/start roundabouts and traffic lights get to you after a while.
Without a doubt the A94 is a much more pleasant route than the A90 through Dundee, but how suitable would the road be for a significantly larger volume of regular traffic compared to what it currently takes?
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paully
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by paully »

B9127 wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 18:43 Once this is built and assuming it is built before a Dundee Northern Bypass is even on the drawing board does anyone think this will be a route to avoid the Dundee Kingsway by using A94
I live on the West side of Perth and once it opens this will be my preferred route to Forfar/Aberdeen. I am not sure if traffic taking this route has been taken into account in the designs. I don't even think the bridge/junction layout has been futureproofed to allow future dualling. I can see them making the same mistake as Inverness made with their Southern Distributor Road which is now hemmed in by development and can't be properly upgraded.
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by novaecosse »

Burns wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 23:08
novaecosse wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 20:51
B9127 wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 18:43 Once this is built and assuming it is built before a Dundee Northern Bypass is even on the drawing board does anyone think this will be a route to avoid the Dundee Kingsway by using A94
Once the Swallow Roundabout is signalised, CTLR will probably shave 20 minutes off the journey :laugh:
When is the Swallow due to be demonised?
Not exactly sure.
Plans have been on the table for a while. Springfield got Planning Permission from Dundee City Council, not realising that quarter of Swallow Roundabout is in Perth and Kinross, so they had to apply for Planning Permission from them as well.
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by IanRB »

Euan wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 23:22
Burns wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 23:10
Euan wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 23:07 I doubt the A94 would ever become a popular road for traffic heading from Perth to the A90 north of Dundee even when the new crossing is open. Ever since the upgrade of the A85/A929 (current A90) the A94 is really more of a local road for Scone, Coupar Angus and Meigle.
I've had to do a lot of driving between Perth (and the west of) and Fofar/Montrose and I honestly prefer the A94. The stop/start roundabouts and traffic lights get to you after a while.
Without a doubt the A94 is a much more pleasant route than the A90 through Dundee, but how suitable would the road be for a significantly larger volume of regular traffic compared to what it currently takes?
Not suitable at all.

If the A90 south of Forfar is blocked traffic gets diverted onto the A94, at which point the road becomes much slower than usual. You need to consider that other than Glamis none of the villages east of Scone have been by-passed, there are many junctions with minor roads, and farms, private houses and businesses face directly onto the road. Add to that quite a lot of farm vehicles on the A94, and you can see that it's not really suitable for mixing with fast through traffic.

There have already been local mutterings about this problem, which may or may not translate into political pressure further down the line.
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Burns »

novaecosse wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 19:26
Burns wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 23:08
novaecosse wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 20:51
Once the Swallow Roundabout is signalised, CTLR will probably shave 20 minutes off the journey :laugh:
When is the Swallow due to be demonised?
Not exactly sure.
Plans have been on the table for a while. Springfield got Planning Permission from Dundee City Council, not realising that quarter of Swallow Roundabout is in Perth and Kinross, so they had to apply for Planning Permission from them as well.
Hopefully P&K will see sense and realise the roundabout isn't to be messed with. I rarely have to stop when making A90 to A90 movements. If the A85 and Denhead of Gray really want easier access to the mainline, they should be petitioning for grade separation.
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by novaecosse »

Burns wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 20:30
novaecosse wrote: Mon Jan 14, 2019 19:26
Burns wrote: Fri Jan 11, 2019 23:08
When is the Swallow due to be demonised?
Not exactly sure.
Plans have been on the table for a while. Springfield got Planning Permission from Dundee City Council, not realising that quarter of Swallow Roundabout is in Perth and Kinross, so they had to apply for Planning Permission from them as well.
Hopefully P&K will see sense and realise the roundabout isn't to be messed with. I rarely have to stop when making A90 to A90 movements. If the A85 and Denhead of Gray really want easier access to the mainline, they should be petitioning for grade separation.
You’ll hate me for saying this, but I’d rather it was redesigned as a signalised staggered junction and not attempt to tack signals onto the roundabout.
The access to Swallow Hotel and the Denhead of Gray Road wasn’t always where it is now. It was realigned to meet Swallow Roundabout.
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by B9127 »

As I noted in another topic the 1968 development plan had the Kingsway as a through DC onto the Perth then A85 with Riverside Drive dualled through to the Tay Rail Bridge and connecting with junction at the now Swallow Circle being GS as was Myrekirk Junction further up the Kingsway - really this a weak link to Perth Futures only because Perth seem to own quarter of a circle
Motorways travelled 2019 - M90 - M9 - M80 - M8 -M77 - M73 -A74(M) -M6-M42-M40 -A404(M) - M4 - M5 -M50 -M56 much better so far than last year
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Burns »

novaecosse wrote: Thu Jan 17, 2019 20:08 You’ll hate me for saying this, but I’d rather it was redesigned as a signalised staggered junction and not attempt to tack signals onto the roundabout.
The access to Swallow Hotel and the Denhead of Gray Road wasn’t always where it is now. It was realigned to meet Swallow Roundabout.
That's interesting to note. It's quite obvious when you look at the curve on the map. After that, I was looking at ways you could grade separate Swallow by putting the Denhead of Gray road back on its original alignment to take it out the equation. My initial thoughts would to link it via local roads where it could join the A90 at Myrekirk but once I started looking more closely at how to fit in a simple fork for the A85, I realised half a grade separated junction already exists and I've come up with a design that looks to me as if it'd be cost-effective and generally keep conflicting flows to a minimum. Take a look and let me know what you think.
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