"Perth Transport Futures"

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

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Altnabreac
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Altnabreac »

orudge wrote:Interesting, it would also fund project development for the A90 in Dundee, the A92 between the Tay Bridge and Preston, the A91 Cupar bypass and the St Andrews rail link! All of those are or have been on my wish list to be tackled, and I think I've done fantasy maps for them all too!

Of course, funding the preparatory work is one thing, actually getting the projects themselves agreed to, funded and built is quite a different matter.
I think once Queensferry Crossing, AWPR and the new M8 open Dundee Northern Bypass really does stand out as the missing link in the Scottish Road network.

Few other missing bypasses like Dalry, Maybole etc but Dundee is really a weak spot in an otherwise pretty good Intercity road system.
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by clc »

orudge wrote:Interesting, it would also fund project development for the A90 in Dundee, the A92 between the Tay Bridge and Preston, the A91 Cupar bypass and the St Andrews rail link! All of those are or have been on my wish list to be tackled, and I think I've done fantasy maps for them all too!

Of course, funding the preparatory work is one thing, actually getting the projects themselves agreed to, funded and built is quite a different matter.
Expenditure has boost GDP in order to qualify for City Deal funding. I'm not sure if prep costs would qualify when there's no guarantee the schemes would go ahead.
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by cb a1 »

Altnabreac wrote: I think once Queensferry Crossing, AWPR and the new M8 open Dundee Northern Bypass really does stand out as the missing link in the Scottish Road network.
What does it do for Tay Cities though? I reckon that economically, the Dundee bypass will benefit Aberdeen and the Central Belt far more than Dundee.
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Altnabreac
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Altnabreac »

cb a1 wrote:
Altnabreac wrote: I think once Queensferry Crossing, AWPR and the new M8 open Dundee Northern Bypass really does stand out as the missing link in the Scottish Road network.
What does it do for Tay Cities though? I reckon that economically, the Dundee bypass will benefit Aberdeen and the Central Belt far more than Dundee.
Well its good for residents who live near the Kingsway!

Economically though it is probably most helpful to areas north of Dundee but remember Angus is part of the Tay Cities deal so benefits to Forfar, Brechin, Arbroath and Montrose are all relevant.

An interesting question will be whether the eastern section of Dundee would be included in a bypass scheme. A Transport Scotland led trunk road scheme might ignore the A92 - A90 travel requirement whereas developing it through Tay Cities may help make the case for the bypass to reach the A92 around Monifieth.
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novaecosse
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by novaecosse »

18 weeks of contraflow ahoy! :o

http://trafficscotland.org/news/story.aspx?id=14370

Open trench cut, in-situ concrete structure.

At least when I'm sitting in traffic each morning and evening, I'll be able to see what's going on! :D
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by paully »

novaecosse wrote:18 weeks of contraflow ahoy! :o

http://trafficscotland.org/news/story.aspx?id=14370

Open trench cut, in-situ concrete structure.

At least when I'm sitting in traffic each morning and evening, I'll be able to see what's going on! :D
That's going to cause chaos at rush hour!
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by jackal »

Altnabreac wrote:
cb a1 wrote:
Altnabreac wrote: I think once Queensferry Crossing, AWPR and the new M8 open Dundee Northern Bypass really does stand out as the missing link in the Scottish Road network.
What does it do for Tay Cities though? I reckon that economically, the Dundee bypass will benefit Aberdeen and the Central Belt far more than Dundee.
Well its good for residents who live near the Kingsway!

Economically though it is probably most helpful to areas north of Dundee but remember Angus is part of the Tay Cities deal so benefits to Forfar, Brechin, Arbroath and Montrose are all relevant.

An interesting question will be whether the eastern section of Dundee would be included in a bypass scheme. A Transport Scotland led trunk road scheme might ignore the A92 - A90 travel requirement whereas developing it through Tay Cities may help make the case for the bypass to reach the A92 around Monifieth.
Bypasses free up road space, thereby reducing transport costs for local business, expanding the labour market, and many other economic goodies.

The benefit for Dundee will be far beyond that felt in Aberdeen or the Central Belt, as only a small proportion of their economic activity involves going through Dundee, whereas all of Dundee's economic involves going through Dundee...
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by cb a1 »

Wonder if they'll fund the current Tay Road bridge so that it can re-open ...

If you're wondering what on earth I'm talking about, I learnt today that it's been closed following the SNP taking the tolls off the bridge because the SNP can't afford to keep it open :-)

https://twitter.com/ChrisLawSNP/status/ ... 6328332288

All those cars I can see on it from the office must be a figment of my imagination.
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novaecosse
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by novaecosse »

cb a1 wrote:Wonder if they'll fund the current Tay Road bridge so that it can re-open ...

If you're wondering what on earth I'm talking about, I learnt today that it's been closed following the SNP taking the tolls off the bridge because the SNP can't afford to keep it open :-)

https://twitter.com/ChrisLawSNP/status/ ... 6328332288

All those cars I can see on it from the office must be a figment of my imagination.
I could have sworn I drove over it yesterday... :roll:
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Bryn666 »

I heard it was bombed as part of the Swedish terror attacks the other week.

Incidentally, I can't ever see a true Dundee bypass happening, merely a corner cut for the A90 - I'm sure A92 traffic will be still be routed through the city.
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Nwallace
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Nwallace »

Bryn666 wrote:I heard it was bombed as part of the Swedish terror attacks the other week.

Incidentally, I can't ever see a true Dundee bypass happening, merely a corner cut for the A90 - I'm sure A92 traffic will be still be routed through the city.
I suspect a majority of A92 traffic stops in Dundee anyway, heading into Dundee from Arbroath it often feels that the main direction at Scott-Fyfe is onto the Arbroath road and so into town rather than onto the Kingsway or down to the Bridge.
And once you get south of the Forgan roundabout, except for Dundee commuting times the road is generally quiet until Parbroath.
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novaecosse
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by novaecosse »

Bryn666 wrote:I heard it was bombed as part of the Swedish terror attacks the other week.

Incidentally, I can't ever see a true Dundee bypass happening, merely a corner cut for the A90 - I'm sure A92 traffic will be still be routed through the city.
Dundee bypass inching ever closer...

Congestion fears over plans to install traffic signals on Dundee's Kingsway

Why Dundee City Council can't concentrate on their own network, and leave the Trunk Road alone defeats me :roll:
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by orudge »

I don't expect a couple of crossings would make all that much difference to traffic, at least at rush hour, but it does make the argument for a Dundee bypass a bit stronger, I'd say.
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Burns
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Burns »

Ah, the underpass, a fine idea... wait, what?
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by B9127 »

Re Kingsway Dundee pedestrian crossings the kids will have great fun with that - I forsee queues back down the Forfar Road and back to Strathmartine road the other way and that's just during construction - does Transport Scotland not have a say in this?
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Truvelo »

The existing Dundee Bypass is a lost cause really. Although it would be relatively straightforward to GSJ each roundabout the TOTSO near Morrisons presents the main problem. A decent radii would encroach on the golf course and the three closely spaced roundabouts north of there would also be an issue unless they passed over or below the A90 without any connection.

A new bypass is the answer. The obvious line would make the distance from Perth to Aberdeen slightly shorter. The lower fuel consumption would claw back some of the construction cost wouldn't it?
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Burns
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Burns »

I've designed a workable solution to bypassing the issues of the Dundee Kingsway. As you can see, I've followed conventional UK design standards throughout the scheme.
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novaecosse
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by novaecosse »

B9127 wrote:Re Kingsway Dundee pedestrian crossings the kids will have great fun with that - I forsee queues back down the Forfar Road and back to Strathmartine road the other way and that's just during construction - does Transport Scotland not have a say in this?
I'm not convinced of the pedestrian demand to justify one signalised crossing, never mind two!

Their was a pedestrian fatality at Mains Loan (eastbound carriageway) in IIRC 2007.
And a teenager on a bike at Graham Street in 2008.
Graham Street approach has High Friction Surfacing, and the speed limit was reduced to 40mph in the last year or two.

And it's not that many years since both carriageways were resurfaced, and signalised crossings will need ducts installed across the road :bang:

What's annoying me the most, is it is supposedly aimed at cyclists? But the cycle provision along that section of the Kingsway is discontinuous between Mains Loan and Old Glamis Road, the Service access road only goes so far along the westbound side.
There's no footway/cycleway along the eastbound verge at all. Be better to sort that first.
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novaecosse
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by novaecosse »

First pair of steel beams delivered this morning for the overbridge.

Traffic held at the contraflow just before 8am. I don't know if it got stuck going round Inveralmond, or the TM crew just wasn't ready for it :confused:
but it lead to a lot of people being late for work with 45 minute delays reported.

Imagine moving two ab-loads through a contraflow during the morning peak traffic?! :roll:
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Re: "Perth Transport Futures"

Post by Nwallace »

orudge wrote:I don't expect a couple of crossings would make all that much difference to traffic, at least at rush hour, but it does make the argument for a Dundee bypass a bit stronger, I'd say.
Main's loan is a nightmare to get onto the Kingsway, the best thing they could do is chop down the tree that blocks visibility down to the forfar road.
I gave up on walking to Caird Park at lunch time because getting there is a game of frogger.

However following the Pitkerro Road over the kingsway on foot is a piece of... erm easy due to a fantastic device called an over bridge.
novaecosse wrote: What's annoying me the most, is it is supposedly aimed at cyclists? But the cycle provision along that section of the Kingsway is discontinuous between Mains Loan and Old Glamis Road, the Service access road only goes so far along the westbound side.
There's no footway/cycleway along the eastbound verge at all. Be better to sort that first.
The Dundee Velodrome is at Caird Park, and Fife council have just started building a road race track at Lochore Meadows...
Also Caird Park has Dundee's athletics "stadium"; so the facilities proposed really arent' about getting people along the Kingsway and over to Caird Park but up from the Town into Caird Park.
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