"Perth Transport Futures"
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"Perth Transport Futures"
A friend has drawn my attention to a proposed change to the A9/A85 GSJ on the Perth bypass. See these links:
http://www.pkc.gov.uk/article/14522/Per ... s-contract
http://www.investinperth.co.uk/invest/p ... ct-phase-1
On the page at the second link, click on the "planning consent [10Mb]" link and go to page "134/152" in the PDF document.
http://www.pkc.gov.uk/article/14522/Per ... s-contract
http://www.investinperth.co.uk/invest/p ... ct-phase-1
On the page at the second link, click on the "planning consent [10Mb]" link and go to page "134/152" in the PDF document.
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
Good to see they're haven't just tried to plonk a roundabout down on the A9! The sliproads on the southbound carriageway should be a little more generous than the current "compact" layout by the look of it, too.
Speaking of Perth, I wonder where the grade separation of the Broxden and Inveralmond (and Keir) roundabouts fits into Transport Scotland's priorities? It was mentioned in the STPR in 2008 as part of the A9 dualling works, but I don't think I've seen much since then. I (as a primarily M90 to A9 south user) would like to see Broxden grade separated at least. Perhaps it'll just be a case of waiting for the actual dualling to be finished first, then see if there's any money left in the pot!
Speaking of Perth, I wonder where the grade separation of the Broxden and Inveralmond (and Keir) roundabouts fits into Transport Scotland's priorities? It was mentioned in the STPR in 2008 as part of the A9 dualling works, but I don't think I've seen much since then. I (as a primarily M90 to A9 south user) would like to see Broxden grade separated at least. Perhaps it'll just be a case of waiting for the actual dualling to be finished first, then see if there's any money left in the pot!
Owen Rudge
http://www.owenrudge.net/
http://www.owenrudge.net/
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
What's the dominant flow at Broxen though, would there need to be an elaborate design or just a flyover onto the M90?
Bryn
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She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
Probably M90 - A9 (S) - North Fife & Dundee/Aberdeen traffic towards Stirling and Glasgow
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
Freeflowing just one of the dominant flows should make some difference. I would prefer A9 to A9 as that's the route I use the most.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Big and complex.
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
A9 - A9 (N) and M90 - A9 (S) could be done with filter lanes running past the roundabout. Easier for A9 due to the geography.
The services may interfere with an A9 - M90 (N) viaduct.
The services may interfere with an A9 - M90 (N) viaduct.
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
The drawings in that document aren't clear as to whether the A85 is being re-routed through the junction or not. The new city-side junction seems to divert the outbound A85 up to the new A9 GSJ, but the opposite is the case for inbound traffic at the existing GSJ. Maybe the A85 will gain a loop?
I am a little surprised that this is being pushed through on its own, as I'm sure I've previously seen an Inveralmond bypass plan starting here and passing to the north of the industrial estate before resuming the current line just south of Luncarty. At the time I thought this was a preferred option, but the plans Wrinkly linked to seem to prohibit such a development, indeed hinder any offline improvements for Inveralmond.
WRT Broxden, I have seen somewhere (possibly by Truvelo) a design for an A9-A9 mainline bypassing the roundabout, with slips following the existing lines. I have an idea I have also seen the same with a single dumbbell junction linking to the existing Broxden roundabout. I cannot recall ever seeing an M90-A9 link on what I considered to be a genuine suggestion - obviously there have been some fantasy junction layouts for the site!
I am a little surprised that this is being pushed through on its own, as I'm sure I've previously seen an Inveralmond bypass plan starting here and passing to the north of the industrial estate before resuming the current line just south of Luncarty. At the time I thought this was a preferred option, but the plans Wrinkly linked to seem to prohibit such a development, indeed hinder any offline improvements for Inveralmond.
WRT Broxden, I have seen somewhere (possibly by Truvelo) a design for an A9-A9 mainline bypassing the roundabout, with slips following the existing lines. I have an idea I have also seen the same with a single dumbbell junction linking to the existing Broxden roundabout. I cannot recall ever seeing an M90-A9 link on what I considered to be a genuine suggestion - obviously there have been some fantasy junction layouts for the site!
Rob.
My mission is to travel every road and visit every town, village and hamlet in the British Isles.
I don't like thinking about how badly I am doing.
My mission is to travel every road and visit every town, village and hamlet in the British Isles.
I don't like thinking about how badly I am doing.
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
The A85 will continue on its current route, meaning that most of the junction does not connect the A9 directly to the A85 (with the exception of the A9 North offslip). I presume the new road will gain an Axxx number.
Rob - The "Inveralmond Bypass" is part of the same scheme. The road will continue NW from the new A9/A85 junction, with a new roundabout at the Western end of the Inveralmond Industrial Estate then it crosses the River Almond and sweeps round towards the A9 a mile South of Luncarty (there is proposed housing development in this area). The next phase will see this road continue over the Tay and meet the A93 and A94 to the North of Scone as a Perth northern bypass.
They have completely hemmed Inveralmond Roundabout in with development so any GSJ here will likely involve demolishing the new retail park.
At Broxden, I don't think there will be much difference in flows between A9>A9 and A9>M90. Regardless of which option is chosen, a freeflow lane for one direction of the other movement could still be constructed. They have got the space for a more intricate junction layout, the 2 directions of the A9 and M90 would be easy to link as a 3-way junction but tying it into the A93 would be the tricky bit.
Rob - The "Inveralmond Bypass" is part of the same scheme. The road will continue NW from the new A9/A85 junction, with a new roundabout at the Western end of the Inveralmond Industrial Estate then it crosses the River Almond and sweeps round towards the A9 a mile South of Luncarty (there is proposed housing development in this area). The next phase will see this road continue over the Tay and meet the A93 and A94 to the North of Scone as a Perth northern bypass.
They have completely hemmed Inveralmond Roundabout in with development so any GSJ here will likely involve demolishing the new retail park.
At Broxden, I don't think there will be much difference in flows between A9>A9 and A9>M90. Regardless of which option is chosen, a freeflow lane for one direction of the other movement could still be constructed. They have got the space for a more intricate junction layout, the 2 directions of the A9 and M90 would be easy to link as a 3-way junction but tying it into the A93 would be the tricky bit.
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
My understanding of the Inveralmond Bypass was a new dualled line for the A9, which is not what those plans appear to show. TBH, anything less than an A9 realignment is going to have little impact on through traffic, and will essentially just be a local distributor / development road, probably piling more traffic onto Broxden and Inveralmond at the same time.
I can see the benefit of this new junction for linking into the new road, but it will make it even more difficult to fix Inveralmond when that time comes. A new Tay crossing from Luncarty to Scone would also be enormously useful, but surely that will just move ever more traffic onto the A9
I can see the benefit of this new junction for linking into the new road, but it will make it even more difficult to fix Inveralmond when that time comes. A new Tay crossing from Luncarty to Scone would also be enormously useful, but surely that will just move ever more traffic onto the A9
Rob.
My mission is to travel every road and visit every town, village and hamlet in the British Isles.
I don't like thinking about how badly I am doing.
My mission is to travel every road and visit every town, village and hamlet in the British Isles.
I don't like thinking about how badly I am doing.
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
I think the main driver of the new junction is to permit expansion to the West. It will also ease the traffic flows exiting the Inveralmond Industrial Estate because currently all traffic over 3.5T has to use Inveralmond roundabout to enter/exit the estate. The only other exit for light vehicles is a rat run on S1.5 roads.
As Rob states above the new bridge over the Tay will end up dumping traffic from Scone/Coupar Angus/Blairgowrie onto the A9, thus possibly requiring the upgrade of Inveralmond. I can't see how Inveralmond can possibly be upgraded without significant demolition.
As Rob states above the new bridge over the Tay will end up dumping traffic from Scone/Coupar Angus/Blairgowrie onto the A9, thus possibly requiring the upgrade of Inveralmond. I can't see how Inveralmond can possibly be upgraded without significant demolition.
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
It'd be a hell of a sharp bend, you may have to look at either building towards the railway or just CPO parts of the industrial estate.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
I suppose that if you omitted A9 south (west) facing slips at Inveralmond, you could carry the dual over the roundabout, use the field between the current road and railway, and just provide North facing slips. The new road to the A85 junction would cater for Industrial estate traffic heading south, and theres probably not much coming out of the city and turning left onto the A9 (although I do quite often, as I normally park by the North Inch, but the industrial estate road could work, to get me to the A85).
Perhaps the best long term solution is to extend the M9 from Stirling, take it round the west of Perth, through the fields near Huntingtower, round the north of Inveralmond, and terminate with a GSJ near where the new bridge across the Tay will be. The M90 could then be carried over Broxden to a Trumpet, or similar, on the new motorway. Are any of us young enough to see this fantasy come true I wonder?!
Perhaps the best long term solution is to extend the M9 from Stirling, take it round the west of Perth, through the fields near Huntingtower, round the north of Inveralmond, and terminate with a GSJ near where the new bridge across the Tay will be. The M90 could then be carried over Broxden to a Trumpet, or similar, on the new motorway. Are any of us young enough to see this fantasy come true I wonder?!
Rob.
My mission is to travel every road and visit every town, village and hamlet in the British Isles.
I don't like thinking about how badly I am doing.
My mission is to travel every road and visit every town, village and hamlet in the British Isles.
I don't like thinking about how badly I am doing.
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
As the traffic counts at Broxden on the N, S and W arms are all 28k-30k, I imagine the most efficient solution would be N-S grade separation. This way you get 'two for (almost) the price of one'. Aside from left-turns (which can be easily removed with filters under any arrangement), N-W or S-W grade separation would only take one movement off the roundabout.
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
BBC News report on the proposed new Tay Crossing north of Perth:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-t ... l-38308089
I can't help thinking that this will cripple Inveralmond unless something else is in the pipeline.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-t ... l-38308089
I can't help thinking that this will cripple Inveralmond unless something else is in the pipeline.
Rob.
My mission is to travel every road and visit every town, village and hamlet in the British Isles.
I don't like thinking about how badly I am doing.
My mission is to travel every road and visit every town, village and hamlet in the British Isles.
I don't like thinking about how badly I am doing.
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
It's a shame the racecourse is in the way because it could have connected to the A9 at Inveralmond. The only problem then would be which way the grade separation favours. A9 west to the new road would be simple but really it needs to turn 90 degrees which would be awfully tight.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Big and complex.
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
Certainly possible to put a GSJed A9 through at Inveralmond, but would be pretty tight for a mainline. Some demolition on the south side may also be needed to fit in the slips.
Last edited by jackal on Wed Dec 14, 2016 22:29, edited 2 times in total.
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
I drew this relating to Broxden, but I had also drawn stuff for Inveralmond, and a link across the Tay.
I had no idea one was actually planned.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=19sJXt ... sp=sharing
I had no idea one was actually planned.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=19sJXt ... sp=sharing
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
I honestly don't believe Inveralmond will be all that important once they alter the A85 and build the new distributor road to the west of the A9 so a couple of northbound slip roads is all that's really needed. I put together a quick mock-up a month or so ago showing my plan to remove Inveralmond roundabout forever.
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
The Cross Tay Link Road and grade separation of Inveralmond and Broxden feature in the proposed Tay Cities Deal. Page 88:
https://www.taycities.co.uk/sites/defau ... s_deal.pdf
https://www.taycities.co.uk/sites/defau ... s_deal.pdf
Re: "Perth Transport Futures"
Interesting, it would also fund project development for the A90 in Dundee, the A92 between the Tay Bridge and Preston, the A91 Cupar bypass and the St Andrews rail link! All of those are or have been on my wish list to be tackled, and I think I've done fantasy maps for them all too!
Of course, funding the preparatory work is one thing, actually getting the projects themselves agreed to, funded and built is quite a different matter.
Of course, funding the preparatory work is one thing, actually getting the projects themselves agreed to, funded and built is quite a different matter.
Owen Rudge
http://www.owenrudge.net/
http://www.owenrudge.net/