Has there ever been a proposal to bypass Dundee Kingsway West?

[AndyB]

Also there are NO roundabouts in Dundee.

Are you sure? I could have sworn my son used to play on one at the play park when he was wee.

Strictly in the sense of traffic flow control devices; the playground apparatus are another matter!

Are there no big circles then?

[Euan]

Did anyone ever post any maps anywhere for this? Dundee needs a bypass pretty desperately; Kingsway is a real bottleneck to the NE, particularly now the Aberdeen bypass is open. I do find it difficult though to imagine a route, particularly around Muirhead. And then there's getting through the Sidlaws. A bit of a megaproject, and one which I doubt will ever be started.

There was a bit of discussion about a Dundee bypass on the Aberdeen bypass thread a few weeks ago and a map was indeed posted on page 65 of the thread. Currently there are no official plans for a Dundee bypass, but it has been looked into by Transport Scotland who have been looking at a range of different ways to improve journey times in the area. I would imagine that with the opening of the Aberdeen bypass, demands for a similar Dundee bypass will be stronger now.

[Burns]

There was a bit of discussion about a Dundee bypass on the Aberdeen bypass thread a few weeks ago and a map was indeed posted on page 65 of the thread.

I made that map to mock the AWPR and lets face it, most road building schemes in the UK. Thankfully, it's not real, though it could be hauntingly representative of what could be built.

[Euan]

The route seems realistic enough for a potential future Dundee bypass. The junction designs less so, especially a four level stack at the A923 junction.

[themadhatter]

It's the route through Birkhill-Muirhead which is the most difficult - and interesting - and you have it further east and closer to Dundee than I expected. I assume it will be fully graded where it meets the current A90, or there's not much point. Living NW of Dundee I am not without disinterest: if it is far enough east it can only make my life better, but I don't expect it ever to be built.

[themadhatter]

I would think more like this, with junctions only at Muirhead and with Strathmartine road.

[Nwallace]

Are you sure? I could have sworn my son used to play on one at the play park when he was wee.

Strictly in the sense of traffic flow control devices; the playground apparatus are another matter!

Are there no big circles then?

Plenty of Circles in Dundee, of all shapes, sizes and dubious lineage.

Particularly at the Scot Fyffe circle...
The left hand lane off the Kingsway is absolutely definitely not for the Strips of Craigie or Greendykes... As someone Craigie bound hopefully realized tonight as their invisibility in my blind spot demonstrated as I followed the lane markings on the circle for Greendykes and they failed to turn down the arbroath road as the lane markings lead them to...
It's always been a shambles though, should probably be flattened and signal controlled with full red option to get the Fire Engines onto it.

[Nwallace]

A Dundee "bypass" need not involve building there.
The current A94 route from Friarton Bridge to Forfar is a mile shorter than the A90 route.

Tunnel through the Sidlaws and then build a Strathmore Expressway, Coupar Angus and the likes may even benefit from the passing trade.

[Truvelo]

The A94 is a favourite route of mine to avoid Dundee. I leave the A90 at Inchture and take some back roads through Newtyle then join the A94 at Glamis. The section from Glamis to Forfar is really fast with the bypasses retaining their original priority junctions so no nasty modern roundabouts with excessive deflection to get in the way. However it would not make an ideal official Dundee Outer Bypass. The western half goes through all the towns and villages and ends up in Perth. To upgrade it all to D2 is a huge distance compared to just cutting the corner on the A90 at Dundee.

[jackal]

There was a bit of discussion about a Dundee bypass on the Aberdeen bypass thread a few weeks ago and a map was indeed posted on page 65 of the thread.

I made that map to mock the AWPR and lets face it, most road building schemes in the UK. Thankfully, it's not real, though it could be hauntingly representative of what could be built.

Not sure there's a single junction on the AWPR that you could say is over-provisioned like that though. All the major junctions are pretty low end.

[Euan]

The A94 is a favourite route of mine to avoid Dundee. I leave the A90 at Inchture and take some back roads through Newtyle then join the A94 at Glamis. The section from Glamis to Forfar is really fast with the bypasses retaining their original priority junctions so no nasty modern roundabouts with excessive deflection to get in the way. However it would not make an ideal official Dundee Outer Bypass. The western half goes through all the towns and villages and ends up in Perth. To upgrade it all to D2 is a huge distance compared to just cutting the corner on the A90 at Dundee.

The A94 would have been the main road between Perth and Aberdeen before the dualling of what became the A90 from Perth to Aberdeen via Dundee. With many of the roads unimproved at the time, nobody would have seen any logic in taking a detour to Dundee when travelling between the central belt and the north east.

[Truvelo]

The A94 is a favourite route of mine to avoid Dundee. I leave the A90 at Inchture and take some back roads through Newtyle then join the A94 at Glamis. The section from Glamis to Forfar is really fast with the bypasses retaining their original priority junctions so no nasty modern roundabouts with excessive deflection to get in the way. However it would not make an ideal official Dundee Outer Bypass. The western half goes through all the towns and villages and ends up in Perth. To upgrade it all to D2 is a huge distance compared to just cutting the corner on the A90 at Dundee.

The A94 would have been the main road between Perth and Aberdeen before the dualling of what became the A90 from Perth to Aberdeen via Dundee. With many of the roads unimproved at the time, nobody would have seen any logic in taking a detour to Dundee when travelling between the central belt and the north east.

It would be interesting to see if the Glamis and Douglastown Bypasses were built before the A90 was dualled as an attempt to upgrade the A94. If so this could explain why the A94 west of Glamis was never improved as though the A90 put paid to further improvements.

Unfortunately the historic 1 inch maps on Sabre finish just short of Glamis and old-maps has no maps of the area from the 60's

[Burns]

Other than the odd few villages and Coupar Perth & Kinross, I find the A94 to be a fast and enjoyable drive with many long, wide straights to enjoy. Unfortunately, unless central Perth is your end destination, it can be a slog to continue west. Maybe that new proposed bridge over the Tay near Scone will solve that issue?

[Euan]

Other than the odd few villages and Coupar Perth & Kinross, I find the A94 to be a fast and enjoyable drive with many long, wide straights to enjoy. Unfortunately, unless central Perth is your end destination, it can be a slog to continue west. Maybe that new proposed bridge over the Tay near Scone will solve that issue?

Usually when I am in a car travelling from Ayrshire towards Glenshee/Braemar via Stirling the route taken is round the south of Perth on the M90 over the Friarton Bridge, followed by the A85 to reach the A93. I would imagine my driver would go the same way to reach the A94 beyond Perth as well. That could well change with the new road being built north of Perth.

[Nwallace]

Other than the odd few villages and Coupar Perth & Kinross, I find the A94 to be a fast and enjoyable drive with many long, wide straights to enjoy. Unfortunately, unless central Perth is your end destination, it can be a slog to continue west. Maybe that new proposed bridge over the Tay near Scone will solve that issue?

I think the ultimate solution is to Tunnel

BadAttemptAtA94TunnelTiny.png (136 KiB) Viewed 1584 times

Mrs Gloag will be delighted...

[B9127]

I recall the Dundee development plan c1968 had Myrekirk Junction as a GS and the Swallow circle was to be GS as well with a DC bypassing Invergowrie- cannot recall what was to happen with the other junctions along to the Forfar Road Circle - going further east Claypotts was to be a flyover of some sort, when we surveyed Barnhill Farm which is now Balgillo the council reserved large sections for the now Dundee to Arbroath DC which they indicated at that time that traffic numbers would not justify dualling until the mid 2000's

[Truvelo]

Do you know where the 1968 development plan can be found? This is one of the things I've been searching years for and could never find. There seems to be virtually nothing at any archive regarding the A90 around Dundee.

[B9127]

Do you know where the 1968 development plan can be found? This is one of the things I've been searching years for and could never find. There seems to be virtually nothing at any archive regarding the A90 around Dundee.

Re where to find a copy I would try firstly the Local History section in the Wellgate Library - another place would possibly be Dundee Uni Archive at the Tower building - I made sure most of Bett Brothers drawings were archived there when the company was sold and there may be a copy in amongst them - another place could be Dundee city council planning dept. - the drawing was about AO size and was multi coloured showing proposals for future land use for housing ,roads industry etc

[Bryn666]

What we have to remember is that isn't most of Kingsway a 1920s build?

It is surprising that it still functions at all, considering the A90 plan gobbled it up. However as others have said the Perth northern bypass is likely to make the A94 more attractive to those who don't slavishly follow sat nav.

[cb a1]

What we have to remember is that isn't most of Kingsway a 1920s build?

Much of the route is 1920's and cited somewhere as being Britain's first ring road [came across that somewhere on the Dundee University website once]. I think the two GSJs came along much later though.

It is surprising that it still functions at all, considering the A90 plan gobbled it up.

Just had a look at the weekday JTs between the A90 west of Dundee and the A90 north of Dundee (total of 15km) for Sept/Oct/Nov of 2018.

Average Off-peak travel speed = 40mph
Average Peak travel speed = 30mph