M2 junction 5 improvements

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Jon Waters
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

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jackal
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

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This is one of the winners from RIS1. On schedule (should start March 2020) despite the increase in ambition.
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Brenley Corner
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

Post by Brenley Corner »

This is really good news; it certainly needs to be done. Most days there are 1 or 2 mile queues southbound on the A249 in both the morning and evening peaks, and as someone who sits in the evening queue on a regular basis I simply can't wait - although the pains during construction will be considerable.

Good local media coverage

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Jon Waters
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

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I go to Sheppey fairly often so i see the queues and the improvements can't come soon enough. Looks good but it will only push traffic to another pinch point M20/A249 junction
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Ben302
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

Post by Ben302 »

This scheme needs to be built and soon. I too sit in the evening queues on the Southbound A249 - on a good day the queue starts just after the lay-by just before the Wormdale Avenue bridge. Ona bad day it's beyond the A2. Also in the evening traffic wishing to leave the M2 coastbound and head South on the A249 has to first contend with finding a gap in the Northbound A249 traffic to get onto Stockbury roundabout, then go through 2 sets of lights for the A249 and the M2 londonbound exit, which when one is green the second one is red, inevitably this leads to M2 coastbound queues often back past Junction 4.
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MotorwayPlannerM21
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

Post by MotorwayPlannerM21 »

I realise it's important to get this scheme built, but for those people who know this junction well, whould there be any merit in a free-flow connection from the westbound M2 to the southbound A249, passing either under or over the new connection to Oad Street. I know this would add more cost and time as a new bridge would be needed but would it be worth building, as to me that seems like a quite important flow as it is the main route for traffic coming from the M2 westbound wanting to go to either Maidstone or the clockwise M25? Perhaps if it was built as a separate scheme a few years down the line it would mean at least the current improvement gets built.
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jackal
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

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MotorwayPlannerM21 wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:32 I realise it's important to get this scheme built, but for those people who know this junction well, whould there be any merit in a free-flow connection from the westbound M2 to the southbound A249, passing either under or over the new connection to Oad Street. I know this would add more cost and time as a new bridge would be needed but would it be worth building, as to me that seems like a quite important flow as it is the main route for traffic coming from the M2 westbound wanting to go to either Maidstone or the clockwise M25? Perhaps if it was built as a separate scheme a few years down the line it would mean at least the current improvement gets built.
An earlier version of the design had that:

M2 A249 Option 4 - Copy.PNG

This is one of the bells and whistles that were dropped to get the flyover delivered within budget. The above plan also had a more direct route for M2eb to A249nb and smoother loop for A249sb to M2wb compared to the final design.
Fluid Dynamics
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

Post by Fluid Dynamics »

Following scaled back schemes such as the M54/M6 link road this is an excellent proposal that solves most of the junction’s inadequacies.
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

Post by Peter Freeman »

This seems to be a fairly good outcome, considering that at one stage they were going to hamburgerise it.

It is still of course, at the end of the day, a stackabout with the roundabout displaced owing to ground level complexities and existing structures to be re-used. It would be nice to think that in the future some of the trimmed free-flows might be added, and roundabout signalisation avoided.
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jackal
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

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Peter Freeman wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:04 This seems to be a fairly good outcome, considering that at one stage they were going to hamburgerise it.

It is still of course, at the end of the day, a stackabout with the roundabout displaced owing to ground level complexities and existing structures to be re-used. It would be nice to think that in the future some of the trimmed free-flows might be added, and roundabout signalisation avoided.
It'll be rather better than a regular stackabout as the two heaviest right turns will be freeflow. This is at the cost of having some of the left turns fouled up, but it's a price worth paying IMO.
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

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One of HE's better schemes... whoever designed it must not have had the memo about making sure it's as rubbish as possible :o
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Debaser
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

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Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 16:09 One of HE's better schemes... whoever designed it must not have had the memo about making sure it's as rubbish as possible :o
Well, apart from the almost complete lack of NMU infra. But then there's no NMUs...oh, are they bus-stops on either side of that dual carriageway, and some houses on Oad Street? Doh!


ETA
Not that every scheme needs NMU infrastructure, but when the bumf from HE and the designers suggests there'll be all sorts of improvements for peds and cyclists, including a bridge, then when none of this is actually included in the design it's a bit of a slap in the face and why engineers get a bad name amongst certain groups.
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

Post by frediculous_biggs »

Aren't they building a local road for access to those few houses with frontages on the A249? Any cycling provision would have to extend all the way to Key Street with the A2 and down Detling Hill (scary enough in a car!) to the M20 junction and beyond. Surely outside the scope of this work. Any pedestrian trying to cross the road at any point along there is really risking life and limb - it's a shame as it's a big barrier to lots of otherwise delightful footpaths.

Mind you, never stopped people when that strip club was still open!
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jackal
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

Post by jackal »

I think the current southbound carriageway will become an LAR. See plan here:

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/asse ... rawing.pdf
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Bryn666
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

Post by Bryn666 »

Debaser wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 16:50
Bryn666 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 16:09 One of HE's better schemes... whoever designed it must not have had the memo about making sure it's as rubbish as possible :o
Well, apart from the almost complete lack of NMU infra. But then there's no NMUs...oh, are they bus-stops on either side of that dual carriageway, and some houses on Oad Street? Doh!


ETA
Not that every scheme needs NMU infrastructure, but when the bumf from HE and the designers suggests there'll be all sorts of improvements for peds and cyclists, including a bridge, then when none of this is actually included in the design it's a bit of a slap in the face and why engineers get a bad name amongst certain groups.
Better doesn't infer perfect of course ;-)
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John McAdam
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

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frediculous_biggs wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 18:43 Aren't they building a local road for access to those few houses with frontages on the A249? Any cycling provision would have to extend all the way to Key Street with the A2 and down Detling Hill (scary enough in a car!) to the M20 junction and beyond. Surely outside the scope of this work. Any pedestrian trying to cross the road at any point along there is really risking life and limb - it's a shame as it's a big barrier to lots of otherwise delightful footpaths.

Mind you, never stopped people when that strip club was still open!
What kind of facilities would be useful in terms of (re)opening up pedestrian access to those footpaths? And could they feature in this scheme?
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

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jackal wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 15:04 It'll be rather better than a regular stackabout as the two heaviest right turns will be freeflow. This is at the cost of having some of the left turns fouled up, but it's a price worth paying IMO.
I agree.

The right turns currently removed from the roundabout create almost a new junction type: the 'displaced partial clover stackabout' !

Adding two more direct lefts, plus that little bridge over the local-road arm, would leave the roundabout handling only two right turns, plus the locals. Alas, those two remaining right turns would be in at-grade competition, crossing each other twice, but that's all rather academic since the currently-proposed design will be ok.
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

Post by frediculous_biggs »

John McAdam wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 21:28 What kind of facilities would be useful in terms of (re)opening up pedestrian access to those footpaths? And could they feature in this scheme?
Essentially bridges. There's a number of long distance footpaths that cross the A249 at grade and only with a gap in the central reservation and a "warning of pedestrians" sign. There's a bridge at the bottom of Detling Hill built and named after a local girl died crossing the road.
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

Post by MotorwayPlannerM21 »

Just saw in the local paper that an MP is warning that the village of Stockbury will be cut off by the improvements. Unfortunately I can't find a corresponding online article but the basic idea is that "cars bombing over the flyover at 70mph could make it difficult and potentially dangerous for people living in Stockbury to get to the village." Stockbury is currently accessed by an at-grade junction to the south of Stockbury Roundabout and as far as I can tell this will not change so I can see why there might be a problem if people are approaching the roundabout at higher speeds, but I don't think this should stop it going ahead as it is as the benefits it brings far outweigh these issues and it can't come soon enough.
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Re: M2 junction 5 improvements

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MotorwayPlannerM21 wrote: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:15 Stockbury is currently accessed by an at-grade junction to the south of Stockbury Roundabout and as far as I can tell this will not change
Stockbury is currently accessed from the north via Honeycrock Hill. This access will be closed with traffic rerouted to Church Hill 700m further south.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/asse ... rawing.pdf
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