M2 junction 5 improvements
Moderator: Site Management Team
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
The progressed option is getting a surprising way towards (low-speed) freeflow as it is. Freeflowing the right turns is always the hardest part of a freeflow design, and there are two freeflow rights in that design. It wouldn't surprise me if it could be later upgraded into a fully freeflow interchange with a couple of extra bridges.
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
Most of that freeflow you're talking about is already there. A249nb>M2eb - already there. M2sb>A249nb - already there (the proposal just makes it more direct). The only new freeflow will be A249wb>M2nb, which is something, but not an amazing return on £100m.
Last edited by jackal on Thu Sep 07, 2017 16:57, edited 1 time in total.
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
Here's my take on it (as submitted to consultation):
This is the kind of gold plating that has jacked the price of a simple two-bridge roundabout up to £158m.
To see what I mean about the Oad Street link, compare the TAR version (dinky little thing dangling off the roundabout) with the consultation version (massive long cutting):I believe a modified version of option 4 could be built for around £100m. The main changes would be as follows:
1. The version of option 4 shown in the consultation brochure shows a lengthy 'New Oad Street link' in a deep cutting. These costly and environmentally destructive earthworks could be avoided by reverting to the simpler link shown in the option 4 drawing in the Technical Appraisal Report, page 125. The saving here should be into the tens of millions of pounds.
2. The new link from the M2 eastbound to A249 northbound would also require significant earthworks, and simply replicates an existing freeflow movement, via a filter lane at the roundabout. A saving into the tens of millions can be expected simply by omitting this element of the scheme.
3. Option 4 is shown expanding the roundabout on all sides. This would necessitate the removal of the M2 eastbound to A249 northbound filter lane mentioned above. To avoid this, the roundabout could be expanded predominantly to the east side. By removing works from the west side of the roundabout there may also be reduced disruption during construction. This change should be roughly cost neutral.
This is the kind of gold plating that has jacked the price of a simple two-bridge roundabout up to £158m.
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
Some local councillors have put forward a motion supporting option 10, the stackabout:
http://www.kentnews.co.uk/news/swale-bo ... -1-5198821
http://www.kentnews.co.uk/news/swale-bo ... -1-5198821
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
They know nothing about traffic flow do they...
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
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Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
Indeed. They should go for my full freeflow version
It largely utilizes the existing layout (especially the loops and M2 bridge) and only needs two new bridges. Alternative local access would be required.
It largely utilizes the existing layout (especially the loops and M2 bridge) and only needs two new bridges. Alternative local access would be required.
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
Its let try and please all the people and ensure the local nimbi's, councillors and mp's who are worried about a few votes are incorporated into a scheme, even if it does not fully improve the strategic networkBryn666 wrote:The realignment of the local road has a seemingly pointless flyover on it too.
Again we see the useful things abandoned in favour of completely unnecessary ones. I'm getting very frustrated at this.
The M25 - The road to nowhere
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
I dare say Jackal's freeflow design would cost less too so it has multiple benefits. Stuff the local roads as the traffic flow is tiny in comparison. Besides, traffic from Danaway can use the A2 junction just to the north.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Big and complex.
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
I'm not the only one that's got the crayons out:
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/sheerness/n ... is-133173/
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/sheerness/n ... is-133173/
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
The preferred route is a revised version of the previously discounted flyover option! It's not full freeflow but still looks like a great upgrade - lots of freeflow movements as well as local access.
https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... rovements/
https://highwaysengland.citizenspace.co ... rovements/
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
It looks rather French actually. Don't tell them that or they'll stick a gare de péage on it...
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.
Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
Someone in France probably drew the 3D illustration as some of the chevrons beyond the M2 are designed for driving on the right
The streetlights also have a foreign feel to them, possibly American.
The streetlights also have a foreign feel to them, possibly American.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Big and complex.
- Brenley Corner
- Member
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- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 19:28
- Location: nr. Canterbury, Kent
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
What a great design for the location hemmed in by the local topography and it using gracefully as they did in the 60s. It is essentially a 3 level roundabout with M2 at the top on the viaduct, the A249 in the middle, and the roundabout at the bottom.
i hope it ends up being built and not shelved for any reason.
The local authorities were also after a J5a linked to the industrial area east of Sittingbourne in their long term plans. Given that they have had to contribute to the funding for this option, I wonder if that will ever happen.
i hope it ends up being built and not shelved for any reason.
The local authorities were also after a J5a linked to the industrial area east of Sittingbourne in their long term plans. Given that they have had to contribute to the funding for this option, I wonder if that will ever happen.
Brenley Corner: congesting traffic since 1963; discussing roads since 2002
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
I suspect it will, as it's what our local MP (and borough council) was calling for. Incidentally the concept art shows a 3-lane M2 over the Stockbury Viaduct - an oddity considering even in the longer term that stretch of the M2 is staying as a 2-lane motorway with hard shoulder.Brenley Corner wrote: ↑Wed May 30, 2018 21:00 What a great design for the location hemmed in by the local topography and it using gracefully as they did in the 60s. It is essentially a 3 level roundabout with M2 at the top on the viaduct, the A249 in the middle, and the roundabout at the bottom.
i hope it ends up being built and not shelved for any reason.
The latest on that is that Swale council is looking to allocate enough space for 10,000 extra houses in its upcoming local plan, complete with a levy per house of some £30,000 (or thereabouts) to fund infrastructure. If the Kent Science Park options are chosen (as the allocated space for those houses), that money would go some way towards paying for a J5A.The local authorities were also after a J5a linked to the industrial area east of Sittingbourne in their long term plans. Given that they have had to contribute to the funding for this option, I wonder if that will ever happen.
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
Highways England released a new plan showing the local access arrangements more clearly. It seems the westbound A249 carriageway will become the local access road, allowing closure of the at-grade junctions at Oad Street and Honeycrock Hill.
http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... gement.pdf
There's also an interesting artist's impression showing the bridge levels:
http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... View+1.pdf
http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... gement.pdf
There's also an interesting artist's impression showing the bridge levels:
http://assets.highwaysengland.co.uk/roa ... View+1.pdf
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
Something's not quite right with those drawings. The map shows the A249 passing over the M2 whereas the artist's impression shows it passing below.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Big and complex.
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
I think the plan is only showing the extent of the works that are planned - as no works are planned for the M2 it's not been drawn in and appears only on the base layer under the drawing. The A249 has to go under the M2 because of the difference in height!
Chris
Roads.org.uk
Roads.org.uk
- Brenley Corner
- Member
- Posts: 3860
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2002 19:28
- Location: nr. Canterbury, Kent
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
The A249 will definitely go under as the M2 goes over the Stockbury Valley at a height of 70ft!!
Brenley Corner: congesting traffic since 1963; discussing roads since 2002
Re: M2 junction 5 improvements
That's why I queried the drawing. It's not like the UK to build something rivalling the Millau Viaduct.
How would you like your grade separations, Sir?
Big and complex.
Big and complex.