botched road markings

The study of British and Irish roads - their construction, numbering, history, mapping, past and future official roads proposals and general roads musings.

There is a separate forum for Street Furniture (traffic lights, street lights, road signs etc).

Registered users get access to other forums including discussions about other forms of transport, driving, fantasy roads and wishlists, and roads quizzes.

Moderator: Site Management Team

Post Reply
User avatar
Big L
Deputy Site Manager
Posts: 7517
Joined: Sun Nov 14, 2010 20:36
Location: B5012

Re: botched road markings

Post by Big L »

I must say I enjoyed my guessing game here on Saturday. Brought to you by the same roads department that gave us the (nearby) B38/B381 nonsense.
Make poetry history.

Did you know there's more to SABRE than just the Forums?
Help with maps using the new online calibrator.
Add your roads knowledge to the SABRE Wiki.
mfmman
Member
Posts: 201
Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2010 19:12

Re: botched road markings

Post by mfmman »

jnty wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:10

edit: a closer look at the tyre marks at this junction seem to imply a lot of west-to-east U-turns happen here - I wonder why? It's just after a GSJ but I can't immediately see any missing movements that this provides?
Drivers turning around after they have missed the TOTSO for the A40 at Raglan, it's the first opportunity
jnty
Member
Posts: 1727
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 00:12

Re: botched road markings

Post by jnty »

mfmman wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:57
jnty wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:10

edit: a closer look at the tyre marks at this junction seem to imply a lot of west-to-east U-turns happen here - I wonder why? It's just after a GSJ but I can't immediately see any missing movements that this provides?
Drivers turning around after they have missed the TOTSO for the A40 at Raglan, it's the first opportunity
Oof - quite an overshoot! Makes perfect sense though.
Rambo
Member
Posts: 1056
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2019 19:56
Contact:

Re: botched road markings

Post by Rambo »

Anybody seen anything like this before?
Attachments
a550.jpg
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35754
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: botched road markings

Post by Bryn666 »

Lancashire used to do similar.

Interestingly in the 70s the London end of the M1 also had similar markings for merges.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
SteelCamel
Member
Posts: 600
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 15:46

Re: botched road markings

Post by SteelCamel »

Big L wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:49 I must say I enjoyed my guessing game here on Saturday. Brought to you by the same roads department that gave us the (nearby) B38/B381 nonsense.
That's not botched, just not maintained properly. It's one thing that does irritate me about the trend for changing road markings by overpainting them with black paint - the black paint wears away first, revealing the "deleted" markings! It's quite possible to remove road markings properly - I've seen a big torch used to burn them off. But really it should be resurfaced, especially on a major road like this.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35754
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: botched road markings

Post by Bryn666 »

SteelCamel wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:59
Big L wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:49 I must say I enjoyed my guessing game here on Saturday. Brought to you by the same roads department that gave us the (nearby) B38/B381 nonsense.
That's not botched, just not maintained properly. It's one thing that does irritate me about the trend for changing road markings by overpainting them with black paint - the black paint wears away first, revealing the "deleted" markings! It's quite possible to remove road markings properly - I've seen a big torch used to burn them off. But really it should be resurfaced, especially on a major road like this.
It's a temporary covid scheme - hence the reluctance to burn off markings. The same has been done in Bolton and it looks the same mess. This is why temporary road markings should be orange (the majority of Europe uses yellow but we need to reserve that for TROs).
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
SteelCamel
Member
Posts: 600
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 15:46

Re: botched road markings

Post by SteelCamel »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 13:05 It's a temporary covid scheme - hence the reluctance to burn off markings. The same has been done in Bolton and it looks the same mess. This is why temporary road markings should be orange as they are in ROI (the majority of Europe uses yellow but we need to reserve that for TROs).
OK, fair enough - but in that case they need to make sure they regularly top up the black paint.

It looks to me like it's one of those things that's "temporary" so doesn't need to be done to a high standard, but the "temporary" becomes "semi-permanent" or even "permanent" and we get stuck with a mess.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35754
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: botched road markings

Post by Bryn666 »

SteelCamel wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 13:11
Bryn666 wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 13:05 It's a temporary covid scheme - hence the reluctance to burn off markings. The same has been done in Bolton and it looks the same mess. This is why temporary road markings should be orange as they are in ROI (the majority of Europe uses yellow but we need to reserve that for TROs).
OK, fair enough - but in that case they need to make sure they regularly top up the black paint.

It looks to me like it's one of those things that's "temporary" so doesn't need to be done to a high standard, but the "temporary" becomes "semi-permanent" or even "permanent" and we get stuck with a mess.
Abroad they don't remove the white markings - you just know to follow the yellow ones. Saves masking out and causing confusion. It looks a bit rubbish but it works well.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
jnty
Member
Posts: 1727
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 00:12

Re: botched road markings

Post by jnty »

Bryn666 wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 13:05
SteelCamel wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:59
Big L wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:49 I must say I enjoyed my guessing game here on Saturday. Brought to you by the same roads department that gave us the (nearby) B38/B381 nonsense.
That's not botched, just not maintained properly. It's one thing that does irritate me about the trend for changing road markings by overpainting them with black paint - the black paint wears away first, revealing the "deleted" markings! It's quite possible to remove road markings properly - I've seen a big torch used to burn them off. But really it should be resurfaced, especially on a major road like this.
It's a temporary covid scheme - hence the reluctance to burn off markings. The same has been done in Bolton and it looks the same mess. This is why temporary road markings should be orange (the majority of Europe uses yellow but we need to reserve that for TROs).
I suppose what's slightly bizarre here is why there's so much red tape that an entirely reasonable scheme to slightly alter lane widths to a layout which looks totally OK for a 30mph road has to be done in a temporary way.
User avatar
Bryn666
Elected Committee Member
Posts: 35754
Joined: Thu Jun 20, 2002 20:54
Contact:

Re: botched road markings

Post by Bryn666 »

jnty wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 13:20
Bryn666 wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 13:05
SteelCamel wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 10:59

That's not botched, just not maintained properly. It's one thing that does irritate me about the trend for changing road markings by overpainting them with black paint - the black paint wears away first, revealing the "deleted" markings! It's quite possible to remove road markings properly - I've seen a big torch used to burn them off. But really it should be resurfaced, especially on a major road like this.
It's a temporary covid scheme - hence the reluctance to burn off markings. The same has been done in Bolton and it looks the same mess. This is why temporary road markings should be orange (the majority of Europe uses yellow but we need to reserve that for TROs).
I suppose what's slightly bizarre here is why there's so much red tape that an entirely reasonable scheme to slightly alter lane widths to a layout which looks totally OK for a 30mph road has to be done in a temporary way.
I agree, just changing the road markings permanently would have made zero difference other than to provide a wider bus lane for cycling in.
Bryn
Terminally cynical, unimpressed, and nearly Middle Age already.
She said life was like a motorway; dull, grey, and long.

Blog - https://showmeasign.online/
X - https://twitter.com/ShowMeASignBryn
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@BrynBuck
BeenEverywhere
Member
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 23:08

Re: botched road markings

Post by BeenEverywhere »

Local accident blackspot.

https://goo.gl/maps/b8hf1n3Jcdv4eiym6

I'd forgotten how screwed up it is until I came out of the B1373 with a friend in the passenger seat who's not local.
Been everywhere... can't remember any of it

Was fun though :laugh:
tom66
Member
Posts: 821
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 16:47

Re: botched road markings

Post by tom66 »

BeenEverywhere wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 18:07 Local accident blackspot.

https://goo.gl/maps/b8hf1n3Jcdv4eiym6

I'd forgotten how screwed up it is until I came out of the B1373 with a friend in the passenger seat who's not local.
That's just awful design!

There's enough road space there to put in a small roundabout. Or islands to force traffic to slow down.
User avatar
skiddaw05
Member
Posts: 2036
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 21:33
Location: Norwich

Re: botched road markings

Post by skiddaw05 »

tom66 wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 08:35
BeenEverywhere wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 18:07 Local accident blackspot.

https://goo.gl/maps/b8hf1n3Jcdv4eiym6

I'd forgotten how screwed up it is until I came out of the B1373 with a friend in the passenger seat who's not local.
That's just awful design!

There's enough road space there to put in a small roundabout. Or islands to force traffic to slow down.
I'm surprised it's not a TOTSO
BeenEverywhere
Member
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 23:08

Re: botched road markings

Post by BeenEverywhere »

It's the complete no man's land between the back of the bend and the give way lines that gets me. It's like they asked "What could we put here that makes sense?" "Utterly nothing" "OK then!"
Been everywhere... can't remember any of it

Was fun though :laugh:
BeenEverywhere
Member
Posts: 597
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2014 23:08

Re: botched road markings

Post by BeenEverywhere »

Rambo wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 20:57 Anybody seen anything like this before?
Only in Tetris
Been everywhere... can't remember any of it

Was fun though :laugh:
User avatar
jervi
Member
Posts: 1596
Joined: Thu Aug 17, 2017 16:29
Location: West Sussex

Re: botched road markings

Post by jervi »

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.88980 ... 384!8i8192
Hmm, Two lane approaches, but only room for 1 vehicle around the mini roundabout. This is awful. Also centre zigzag for zebra crossing is missing.
dseagull
Member
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 22:20

Re: botched road markings

Post by dseagull »

jervi wrote: Sun Jan 30, 2022 23:39 https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.88980 ... 384!8i8192
Hmm, Two lane approaches, but only room for 1 vehicle around the mini roundabout. This is awful. Also centre zigzag for zebra crossing is missing.
Similar to this; https://www.google.com/maps/@50.8597726 ... 2!1b1!2i41

If anything larger than a Corsa tries to use that right for the garage, traffic backs up quickly...
User avatar
Patrick Harper
Member
Posts: 3202
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 14:41
Location: Wiltshire

Re: botched road markings

Post by Patrick Harper »

https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9765344 ... 384!8i8192

Here we see, towards the lights, a road with a Keep Clear section, followed by a gap long enough only for a Peel P50, followed by an cycle box.

The problem is, if the amber lights are shown just as a motorist is about to hit the Keep Clear section, they have to make a decision: emergency stop to avoid illegally stopping in one of the areas mentioned, or taking a chance and hoping that the green light will last long enough for them to clear the junction. Personally I think something has to be given up here.
jnty
Member
Posts: 1727
Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2021 00:12

Re: botched road markings

Post by jnty »

Patrick Harper wrote: Fri Feb 11, 2022 21:27 https://www.google.com/maps/@50.9765344 ... 384!8i8192

Here we see, towards the lights, a road with a Keep Clear section, followed by a gap long enough only for a Peel P50, followed by an cycle box.

The problem is, if the amber lights are shown just as a motorist is about to hit the Keep Clear section, they have to make a decision: emergency stop to avoid illegally stopping in one of the areas mentioned, or taking a chance and hoping that the green light will last long enough for them to clear the junction. Personally I think something has to be given up here.
I don't think it's strictly illegal to stop in a Keep Clear which is probably why they've been painted as such. But I do think things like this so close to lights are a bit silly and reduce cm faith in other examples of the same marking.
Post Reply